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Corporations


james5001

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The recent financial crisis in most of the Western World once more brings up the issues of responsibility, culpability and regulation when it comes to the State, Government, Corporations and businesses.
The structure and function (at least in theory) of many Western governments allows the citizens of the State to influence governmental policy on issues which affect them now and which may affect them in the future.

The structure and function of a Corporation is similar to that of a bacteria: Short term gain, with no regard for the future, other entities in the environment (eg humans) or the future of that environment. They are totalitarian, tyrannical institutions, with orders being given at the top and passed further down the chain. In the US, laws have been passed to require corporations to place the interests of their owners above other interests, ie to make as much money as possible.

It is much cheaper and more effective, in many instances, to use the machinery of the State to carry out actions which would benefit the corporation, eg the protection of oil wells in the Middle East, the socialisation of debt when problems occur, the use of research into areas whose innovations are then basically given back to the corporations. Many of the breakthroughs in recent decades have been down to the use of state machinery to benefit the corporations eg Computers, electronics, the telecommunications sector including the Internet, automation, the use of lasers, the commercial aviation industry, etc etc.

Corporations gain control of State machinery through the use of government influence, eg outright bribery, lobbying, offering of lucrative jobs to soon to be retiring government ministers. The most important way of influencing the state is through the use of public manipulation- marketing, and more importantly, the media. Many private media outlets, and especially so in the US, are owned by major corporations. Apart from the obvious money-making venture, there are other, clear reasons for this ownership. The funding of election campaigns is also a major influential factor when trying to control governments, although it is used to a lesser extent in Ireland. In the US, elections have been reduced to marketing campaigns. The word 'marketing' is important here. Marketing fundamentally involves misinforming consumers. Presidents are mainly judged on superficialities; false images created through the use of marketing.

So, in much of the Western World, we have 2 major power systems clashing: The power of people in taking action to affect their present conditions, and more importantly, their own future; and corporations: Ever- growing organisations which may end up destroying this future through their narrow minded outlooks.
 
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Dylan2010

at least bacteria die if there is no food, what do you call the entropy creating governments that insist on consuming resourses now when they are needed elsewhere. The welfare state is like an intensively farmed lake where production has to rise by the application of insane amount of additives, eventually the lake wil become a poison suir.
 

james5001

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at least bacteria die if there is no food, what do you call the entropy creating governments that insist on consuming resourses now when they are needed elsewhere. The welfare state is like an intensively farmed lake where production has to rise by the application of insane amount of additives, eventually the lake wil become a poison suir.
Bacteria are usually limited to a certain environment. So when resources are depleted in that environment, they die. With corporations, they are across the world, depleting all of the world's resources. 2 things will happen- 1.The world's resources will run out, resulting in devastating consequences for corporations, but more importantly, humans. 2. Bacteria produce toxins which harm and can destroy the environment in which they live. Corporations are doing the same and could destroy much of human life through climate change. 1 of these things will happen first.
 

Warrior of Destiny

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The corporation is the natural follow on to the small business and man's desire for self-actualization. To say the Corporation in evil is to say man is evil.
 

Analyzer

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In Ireland we had the Ponzi Democrats in power, as IBEC's sentry in the cabinet for a decade.

How did that work out ?

It bankrupted Ireland.
 
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Dylan2010

Bacteria are usually limited to a certain environment. So when resources are depleted in that environment, they die. With corporations, they are across the world, depleting all of the world's resources. 2 things will happen- 1.The world's resources will run out, resulting in devastating consequences for corporations, but more importantly, humans. 2. Bacteria produce toxins which harm and can destroy the environment in which they live. Corporations are doing the same and could destroy much of human life through climate change. 1 of these things will happen first.
the anology is probably poor so I wouldnt push it. The state over consumes in the now even when there is no resouces availiable and simply borrows them from the future. in the current depression just about every country is over consuming when the consumer economy should have collapsed. If companies are bacteria the state is out of control cancer.
 

james5001

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the anology is probably poor so I wouldnt push it. The state over consumes in the now even when there is no resouces availiable and simply borrows them from the future. in the current depression just about every country is over consuming when the consumer economy should have collapsed. If companies are bacteria the state is out of control cancer.
The state is controlled to a large extent by corporations.
 

james5001

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The corporation is the natural follow on to the small business and man's desire for self-actualization. To say the Corporation in evil is to say man is evil.
Man worries about the long-term future. Corporations, in their structure, do not.
 

Raketemensch

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Man worries about the long-term future. Corporations, in their structure, do not.
Good point. Humans care about their kids. Corporations have no analogous entities. Unfortunately, neither do "democratic" governments which last 4 or five years and then reset. They are even more short termist.
 

Analyzer

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The lamestream media is greased with advertising revenues from corporate entities.

Just so that you know where the power flows to, the money flows from.
 

james5001

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Good point. Humans care about their kids. Corporations have no analogous entities. Unfortunately, neither do "democratic" governments which last 4 or five years and then reset. They are even more short termist.
If they are really democratic, governments do care about the future. Because they are controlled by the people.
 
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Dylan2010

Man worries about the long-term future. Corporations, in their structure, do not.
neither do governments. I make decisions with an eye on the next 40 years, corporations and gov. have much shorter time horizons. However no one corporation can force me to buy their stuff so that my savings are depleted yet a gov. could turn me from a net saver to a net borrower because it forces me to "consume" now.
 

Warrior of Destiny

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Man worries about the long-term future. Corporations, in their structure, do not.
Not true, the long-term for a Corporation is just shorter than the long-term for a man. Business in general cannot make plans that stretch into decades. A long-term plan in any business not just a Corporation is usually at it's longest 5 years. Trying to predict the economy and the market beyond those years is a pointless venture. Hence why while Corporations may appear short-termist to normal people but in reality most think in the long-term which is applicable to them.
 

gerhard dengler

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Not that I'm a supporter of "big business", but there are examples of very successful companies that have a "social conscience".

Examples such as the Guinness company who provided housing for it's workers and who, through The Iveagh Trust, has donations amount to millions of pounds to charity.
Many Quaker firms such as Cadbery's and Clarke's, shared the same charitable ethos.
 

james5001

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neither do governments. I make decisions with an eye on the next 40 years, corporations and gov. have much shorter time horizons. However no one corporation can force me to buy their stuff so that my savings are depleted yet a gov. could turn me from a net saver to a net borrower because it forces me to "consume" now.
They do if they are truly democratic. Governments are more democratic than corporations.
2nd bold point- They can't physically force you, but they manipulate people into buying things made from resources that are finite. You have an input into what a government can do.
 

james5001

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Not true, the long-term for a Corporation is just shorter than the long-term for a man. Business in general cannot make plans that stretch into decades. A long-term plan in any business not just a Corporation is usually at it's longest 5 years. Trying to predict the economy and the market beyond those years is a pointless venture. Hence why while Corporations may appear short-termist to normal people but in reality most think in the long-term which is applicable to them.
That doesn't tackle my point. Man worries about his children's future. Corporations do not and cannot worry about that future.
 

Raketemensch

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If they are really democratic, governments do care about the future. Because they are controlled by the people.
That's really difficult to define. All democratic governments are controlled by the people to a greater or lesser extent. However, a large proportion of the people give away their little bit of control by not voting or voting for their great grandfather's civil war allegiance. What would you do about apathy and lack of education? Forced political education camps? Who would write their curriculum? Who would vote on that?

Some would say that the Irish government accurately reflects the character of the Irish people. Socially and financially conservative; emphasises the individual over society; tribal and so on. if this is true then our democracy is working OK. I fear it may be.
 

james5001

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thats a meaningless statement.
No its not. Im saying that real democratic governments care about the future because they are controlled by beings which care about the future.
 

james5001

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That's really difficult to define. All democratic governments are controlled by the people to a greater or lesser extent. However, a large proportion of the people give away their little bit of control by not voting or voting for their great grandfather's civil war allegiance. What would you do about apathy and lack of education? Forced political education camps? Who would write their curriculum? Who would vote on that?

Some would say that the Irish government accurately reflects the character of the Irish people. Socially and financially conservative; emphasises the individual over society; tribal and so on. if this is true then our democracy is working OK. I fear it may be.
Socialising billions of debt isn't financially conservative. People won't vote for a democratic government (if they're not being manipulated into it) which will destroy the future of their children. We are being manipulated through corporate influence.
 
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