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Could Aer Lingus Go Bust?


hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
Declare bankruptcy ? Why ?

The only losers re the pension shortfall will be the employees :(

If the strikes bring the business to a halt, the only losers will be the employees :(
 

gijoe

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Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,419
There is no obligation on Aer Lingus to make any additional payments to the fund so if it does fail it will the Unions that bring it down. If management cave in and give up their cash buffer to meet the pension deficit then the next crisis in aviation will close Aer Lingus.
 

Tin Foil Hat

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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,900
It wouldn't be the first time a bunch of unionised dimwits postured themselves out of their jobs.
Now is not the time for industrial action in the airline industry, ffs. A child would know it.
 

hammer

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Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
How long could AL employees survive without pay ?

The employees are in a very poor bargaining position at this moment in time.
 

hiker

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Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
1,961
traditionally airline strikes elicit zero public sympathy...

Could you imagine Dublin Airport with no Aer Lingus???

Could this be Ryanairs golden moment to get rid of their biggest Irish competitor by urging a standoff in the boardroom??
 

odlum

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
4,159
It's illogical. Would the employees rather work constructively to sort this out over time or not have a job at all?

Any employee who strikes in this environment is completely brain dead. I'd hope they would use their common sense. How long could the airline go losing €2m a day?
 

Ruff says Flaherty

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Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,505
Nope. Michael O will swoop in on his low-cost no frills white steed and save the day.
 
B

birthday

Given the standoff between management and Unions, and the €750 million pension hole, is it conceivable that Aer Lingus will join the ranks of Sabena, Alitalia, Swissair, and American Airlines and declare bankruptcy???

Aer Lingus staff to strike next month over pension deadlock - National News - Independent.ie
According to a recent report some DAA staff may receive pensions up to 78% of final salary-
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1017/1224325341362.html&ei=aqZ-UMuCH8qEhQeQ84HgCQ&usg=AFQjCNFlzHwfNgL8UioshLaAmLgYKSPadw

Is there a similar expectation in Aer Lingus? If so it is no wonder that there might be a massive hole in the fund.
Is there any chance that some journalist might shed some light on the specific pension issues of Aer Lingus?
 

Keith-M

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Jul 24, 2007
Messages
15,779
Website
www.allkindsofeverything.ie
I have to say that I would miss Aer Lingus if they went out of business, but if the price we have to pay is to roll over and allow the unions to set ridiculous pension rates, then it's too high a price for having a "national airline". The Belgians and Swiss have lived perfectly well without Sabena and SwissAir.
 
B

birthday

According to a recent report some DAA staff may receive pensions up to 78% of final salary-
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1017/1224325341362.html&ei=aqZ-UMuCH8qEhQeQ84HgCQ&usg=AFQjCNFlzHwfNgL8UioshLaAmLgYKSPadw

Is there a similar expectation in Aer Lingus? If so it is no wonder that there might be a massive hole in the fund.
Is there any chance that some journalist might shed some light on the specific pension issues of Aer Lingus?
According to the article

''an anomaly in the rules of the scheme means those with full service who leave before their normal retirement date – age 65 until recently – can also draw down the State pension. This boosts their annual pension to about €52,000 a year, or almost 87 per cent of final salary''
''The unions were targeting an 80 to 85 per cent pension from the DAA in their talks.''

Wtf? How is a massively indebted DAA able to find €55million to pay for this largesse?
Why can we not find out the situation in Aer Lingus?
 

hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
The maximum pension you should receive in any pension scheme should be 40% of your average salary over the previous 6 years, and it should be capped at a maximum of €36,000

That should cover public servants, f***wit politicians, private sector staff, bank staff, former bank directors and regulators etc...

Eugene Sheehy pension I believe is between €400k - €500k :(
 

Keith-M

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
15,779
Website
www.allkindsofeverything.ie
The maximum pension you should receive in any pension scheme should be 40% of your average salary over the previous 6 years, and it should be capped at a maximum of €36,000

That should cover public servants, f***wit politicians, private sector staff, bank staff, former bank directors and regulators etc...

Eugene Sheehy pension I believe is between €400k - €500k :(

Agreed, (unless you have paid in AVCs to top that up) and no one should be paid a pension until they have fully retired. The idea of people getting pensions from one job and still working (and denying the job to others) is crazy.
 

hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
According to the article

''an anomaly in the rules of the scheme means those with full service who leave before their normal retirement date – age 65 until recently – can also draw down the State pension. This boosts their annual pension to about €52,000 a year, or almost 87 per cent of final salary''
''The unions were targeting an 80 to 85 per cent pension from the DAA in their talks.''

Wtf? How is a massively indebted DAA able to find €55million to pay for this largesse?
Why can we not find out the situation in Aer Lingus?
DAA.......just keep increasing taxes & charges.

You are paying birthday.

Staycations might focus the mind :)
 
B

birthday

The maximum pension you should receive in any pension scheme should be 40% of your average salary over the previous 6 years, and it should be capped at a maximum of €36,000

That should cover public servants, f***wit politicians, private sector staff, bank staff, former bank directors and regulators etc...

Eugene Sheehy pension I believe is between €400k - €500k :(
Another example of the older generation pulling up the ladder and saddling younger workers and children with massive debts that will take a generation to pay off. It will be interesting to see how much longer younger workers and younger taxpayers will tolerate this greed.
 

TheWexfordInn

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
12,144
Due to my obsessive dislike of Ryanair I always fly Aer Lingus when travelling to Ireland. However these suggestions of future strikes mean I will probably start looking around at other airlines in future.
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
I hope Aer Lingus don't go down as I would prefer them to any other air line

But they will not get much sympathy here from Sean & Siobhan who have their flight plans mucked up

+ There are vultures out there who will smell blood and be ready to swoop

Vulture Number 1 has his Flight Plan drawn up

- and is no doubt flapping his wings already...:?
 

TODevastated

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
1,334
The maximum pension you should receive in any pension scheme should be 40% of your average salary over the previous 6 years, and it should be capped at a maximum of €36,000

That should cover public servants, f***wit politicians, private sector staff, bank staff, former bank directors and regulators etc...

Eugene Sheehy pension I believe is between €400k - €500k :(
where did you pluck the figure of 36K (average industrial wage i suppose?)
 

TODevastated

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Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
1,334
Given the standoff between management and Unions, and the €750 million pension hole, is it conceivable that Aer Lingus will join the ranks of Sabena, Alitalia, Swissair, and American Airlines and declare bankruptcy???

Aer Lingus staff to strike next month over pension deadlock - National News - Independent.ie
no, options are many

(i) shut the scheme down,
(ii) freeze benefits earned to this point and decrease them going forward
(iii) increase employee contributions by what would be a very large amount
(iv) hybrid DC and DB scheme,
(v) DB scheme to a certain amount and DC after that level

whatever way you look
(a) the employer will have to cough up, and
(b) the employees benefits will get hammered

the law in this area needs to be altered so that
(i) deferred pensioners and
(ii) pensioners

take part of the pain
 
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