Could California go independent?

O

Oscurito

Californians are not happy. The election of Donald Trump seems to have crystallized a feeling that has been bubbling under the surface for some time. They don't like the Combover-in-Chief, they don't want to be ruled by him and now, 33% of them want independence. That's up sharply in just a couple of years.

The Yes California folks for who are campaigning for it have been collecting signatures demanding a statewide plebiscite."We're a nation, not a state", say campaigners. And they have figures on their side. With a population of 40 million and a GDP of US$2.5tn, it would be the 6th largest economy in the world and its departure from the USA would reduce the size of the American economy by 14%.

Of course, it's still a remote possibility and would require votes in the Senate and House of Representatives and the approval of 38 of the 50 states. However, with the USA swinging to the right, national discourse becoming more divisive and Trump getting weirder by the day, Golden State disenchantment is unlikely to dissipate any time soon. Meanwhile, right wingers in other states have never liked California with its liberal laws and whiny Hollywood stars and, if letting Cali go meant conservative dominance in the remaining 49, a lot of the red politicians and states might see the benefits in letting those troublesome west-coasters head for the exit.

They should be careful what they wish for though. Liberal California is one of the biggest contributors to federal spending (the blue Democrat states generally are) and the poorer red states - for all their railing against Washington and Big Government - would be the big losers.

EDIT AT 14:36:
There is also this issue to be considered.

Surprising no poster has pointed out yet that the "Yes California" campaign is a Russian-backed ruse: The founder currently lives in Moscow, where he has started an unofficial "embassy", and has received significant funding from Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_California
 
Last edited:


firefly123

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If it were to happen the north east would be next. Then all sorts of nastiness would occur.
It won't happen.
 

Catalpast

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Californians are not happy. The election of Donald Trump seems to have crystallized a feeling that has been bubbling under the surface for some time. They don't like the Combover-in-Chief, they don't want to be ruled by him and now, 33% of them want independence. That's up sharply in just a couple of years.

The Yes California folks for who are campaigning for it have been collecting signatures demanding a statewide plebiscite."We're a nation, not a state", say campaigners. And they have figures on their side. With a population of 40 million and a GDP of US$2.5tn, it would be the 6th largest economy in the world and its departure from the USA would reduce the size of the American economy by 14%.

Of course, it's still a remote possibility and would require votes in the Senate and House of Representatives and the approval of 38 of the 50 states. However, with the USA swinging to the right, national discourse becoming more divisive and Trump getting weirder by the day, Golden State disenchantment is unlikely to dissipate any time soon. Meanwhile, right wingers in other states have never liked California with its liberal laws and whiny Hollywood stars and, if letting Cali go meant conservative dominance in the remaining 49, a lot of the red politicians and states might see the benefits in letting those troublesome west-coasters head for the exit.

They should be careful what they wish for though. Liberal California is one of the biggest contributors to federal spending (the blue Democrat states generally are) and the poorer red states - for all their railing against Washington and Big Government - would be the big losers.
If California left

- then the Tea Party

- would throw the Mother of all Tea Parties!!!:cool:

It would pretty well guarantee Right Presidents

- FOREVER!

Go Calif Go....

Er on 2nd thoughts...:?
 
O

Oscurito

If it were to happen the north east would be next. Then all sorts of nastiness would occur.
It won't happen.
That's what they said about Brexit.

The vote would be two years into the Trump presidency. Look at what he's done in just 4 weeks.
 

callas

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No they should not leave.

Just withhold their taxes from the federal government.
 

Supra

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Californians are not happy. The election of Donald Trump seems to have crystallized a feeling that has been bubbling under the surface for some time. They don't like the Combover-in-Chief, they don't want to be ruled by him and now, 33% of them want independence. That's up sharply in just a couple of years.

The Yes California folks for who are campaigning for it have been collecting signatures demanding a statewide plebiscite."We're a nation, not a state", say campaigners. And they have figures on their side. With a population of 40 million and a GDP of US$2.5tn, it would be the 6th largest economy in the world and its departure from the USA would reduce the size of the American economy by 14%.

Of course, it's still a remote possibility and would require votes in the Senate and House of Representatives and the approval of 38 of the 50 states. However, with the USA swinging to the right, national discourse becoming more divisive and Trump getting weirder by the day, Golden State disenchantment is unlikely to dissipate any time soon. Meanwhile, right wingers in other states have never liked California with its liberal laws and whiny Hollywood stars and, if letting Cali go meant conservative dominance in the remaining 49, a lot of the red politicians and states might see the benefits in letting those troublesome west-coasters head for the exit.

They should be careful what they wish for though. Liberal California is one of the biggest contributors to federal spending (the blue Democrat states generally are) and the poorer red states - for all their railing against Washington and Big Government - would be the big losers.
Would their economy still be as strong if their largest export market and nearest neighbours become hostile to them?
 

Betson

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There would be a lot of work created by building a wall around California which they would be made pay for.

Also a big tax on services they want to sell to the US Mainland , this would see a lot of their tech firms up and move.

Never going to happen in a million years, but if it did it would be welcomed by the GOP more than anyone else.
 

sic transit

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There would be a lot of work created by building a wall around California which they would be made pay for.

Also a big tax on services they want to sell to the US Mainland , this would see a lot of their tech firms up and move.

Never going to happen in a million years, but if it did it would be welcomed by the GOP more than anyone else.
Tech firms have enormous cash piles and they do make most of the things that people need to function in the modern world. All they'd need to do is withdraw hardware anf software licensing and IT as the US knows it would stop in the rump US. Doubt it will ever happen anyway.
 
O

Oscurito

Would their economy still be as strong if their largest export market and nearest neighbours become hostile to them?
With the exception of Arizona, neighbouring states would be of the blue/liberal/Democratic persuasion and would probably be sympathetic to some degree.

(And then there's Canada and Mexico. :cool:)
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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stopdoingstuff

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It turns out businesses are already seceding from California.

3 Simple Charts That Help Explain Why 9,000 Businesses Have Left California In Just 7 Years | Zero Hedge

As pointed out by the Dallas Business Journal, a study conducted by Joseph Vranich, a site selection consultant and president of Irvine, California-based Spectrum Location Solutions, found that roughly 9,000 California companies moved their headquarters or diverted projects to out-of-state locations in the last seven years due to the Golden State’s “hostile” business environment. As the DBJ points out, companies are fleeing California to escape escalating costs and regulations and states like Texas and Nevada with no income tax and high relative purchasing power are the key beneficiaries:

It’s typical for companies leaving California to experience operating cost savings of 20 up to 35 percent, Vranich said. He said in an email to the Dallas Business Journal that he considers the results of the seven-year, 378-page study “astonishing.” “I even wonder if some kind of ‘business migration history’ has been made.”

Companies continue to leave California because of rising costs and
concerns over the state’s “hostile” business environment, according to the study, which also names companies and provides details of business disinvestments in the state.

Here are some highlights of the study:
Texas ranked as the top state to which businesses migrated, followed by: (2) Nevada, (3) Arizona, (4) Colorado, (5) Washington, (6) Oregon, (7) North Carolina, (8) Florida, (9) Georgia and (10) Virginia. Texas was the top destination for California companies each year during the seven-year study period.
Los Angeles led the Top 15 California counties with the highest number of disinvestment events, followed by: (2) Orange, (3) Santa Clara, (4) San Francisco, (5) San Diego, (6) Alameda, (7) San Mateo, (8) Ventura, (9) Sacramento, (10) Riverside, (11) San Bernardino, (12) Contra Costa tied with Santa Barbara, (13) San Joaquin, (14) Stanislaus and (15) Sonoma.
However they are innovative and still outpace the US in terms of growth and job creation. The question is would secession help or hurt. I would say it would help.

But here is what will actually happen if they secede- 15 years later they will join Mexico.
 
O

Oscurito

It turns out businesses are already seceding from California.

3 Simple Charts That Help Explain Why 9,000 Businesses Have Left California In Just 7 Years | Zero Hedge



However they are innovative and still outpace the US in terms of growth and job creation. The question is would secession help or hurt. I would say it would help.

But here is what will actually happen if they secede- 15 years later they will join Mexico.
It doesn't seem to be a major issue for them.

California is outpacing the nation in economic growth with a 2.4 percent increase in GDP expected this year.
 

constitutionus

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Hey they want to have their goods and services taxed to high heaven and require a visa to visit new York more power to them .

And that's before you get to the fact their water and electricity rates will shoot through the roof as the other stares supply them with both to a high degree .

Water alone is a big prob for them .
 
O

Oscurito

There would be a lot of work created by building a wall around California which they would be made pay for.

Also a big tax on services they want to sell to the US Mainland , this would see a lot of their tech firms up and move.

Never going to happen in a million years, but if it did it would be welcomed by the GOP more than anyone else.
A lot of the GOP's supporters rely (directly or indirectly) on handouts towards which Californians contribute a lot.
 

GDPR

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Californians are not happy. The election of Donald Trump seems to have crystallized a feeling that has been bubbling under the surface for some time. They don't like the Combover-in-Chief, they don't want to be ruled by him and now, 33% of them want independence. That's up sharply in just a couple of years.

The Yes California folks for who are campaigning for it have been collecting signatures demanding a statewide plebiscite."We're a nation, not a state", say campaigners. And they have figures on their side. With a population of 40 million and a GDP of US$2.5tn, it would be the 6th largest economy in the world and its departure from the USA would reduce the size of the American economy by 14%.

Of course, it's still a remote possibility and would require votes in the Senate and House of Representatives and the approval of 38 of the 50 states. However, with the USA swinging to the right, national discourse becoming more divisive and Trump getting weirder by the day, Golden State disenchantment is unlikely to dissipate any time soon. Meanwhile, right wingers in other states have never liked California with its liberal laws and whiny Hollywood stars and, if letting Cali go meant conservative dominance in the remaining 49, a lot of the red politicians and states might see the benefits in letting those troublesome west-coasters head for the exit.

They should be careful what they wish for though. Liberal California is one of the biggest contributors to federal spending (the blue Democrat states generally are) and the poorer red states - for all their railing against Washington and Big Government - would be the big losers.
The home of the snowflake?

Can't see it.
 
O

Oscurito

Hey they want to have their goods and services taxed to high heaven and require a visa to visit new York more power to them .

And that's before you get to the fact their water and electricity rates will shoot through the roof as the other stares supply them with both to a high degree .

Water alone is a big prob for them .
I assume they already pay the other states for water and electricity?

As it stands, they contribute a lot more to the other states than they get back.
 

silverharp

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couldnt happen and if they did there would be an instant law and order vacuum and you would have armed groups staking out property and chasing off land owners it would be chaos
 


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