Could Communism Have Survived in Eastern Europe?



Cdebru

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I have never met, or befriended, an Eastern European living in Ireland who believed so or wanted so.

But hey, they tend to be the ambitious ones.
Most Romanians I have met have had some yearning or nostalgia for the old days, as one said they were proud to be Romanians, now when people hear the name they think thieves and prostitutes, everyone had work and everyone had to work, they didn't worry about how their children could afford a house, or if someone got sick how they would pay for medical care, no one was rich, everyone worked and everyone had money, that it was a safe country and that people respected the police, that Romania had just finished paying off all of its national debt, that it was on the verge of enjoying the fruits of their labour for the previous 20 years in paying off their debt, a lot have at a minimum benign views on Ceausescu with many having a high opinion of him,and most don't think the revolution was popular or home grown with different suspects including the EU, the USSR, the US, the world bank etc.
I don't know if it a symptom of how bad Romanians had it after the collapse of communism or if it is a hang over from propaganda from that time, but Romanians are definitely the most positive I have met on the communist era in general.

A few other non Romanians I have spoken to about it, have expressed a common theme that it wasn't all bad and they missed the security of it in regards of work, education, healthcare etc, a wish that they could have the best bits of both, but not any desire to return to the old days.
 

rainmaker

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Realistically Communist government has been great for China.
China is not communist - whatever the ruling dictatorship calls itself. It is as capitalist as the good old U.S. of A.
 

Cdebru

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Can't imagine the Tibetans or Uighur will concur!
Because the average Tibetan had it so good before the Chinese arrived, not defending China's occupation of Tibet , but serfdom and barbaric legal punishments like eye gouging, is not the image the west portrays of the Dalai Lama for some reason
 

razorblade

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Realistically Communist government has been great for China.


.
Tell that to the millions who perished because of chairman Mao Zedong's policies, or those students that were brutally massacred in Tiananmen sqare in 1989, i'm sure they would like to hear how great it has been.
 

Dadaist

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Most Romanians I have met have had some yearning or nostalgia for the old days, as one said they were proud to be Romanians, now when people hear the name they think thieves and prostitutes, everyone had work and everyone had to work, they didn't worry about how their children could afford a house, or if someone got sick how they would pay for medical care, no one was rich, everyone worked and everyone had money, that it was a safe country and that people respected the police, that Romania had just finished paying off all of its national debt, that it was on the verge of enjoying the fruits of their labour for the previous 20 years in paying off their debt, a lot have at a minimum benign views on Ceausescu with many having a high opinion of him,and most don't think the revolution was popular or home grown with different suspects including the EU, the USSR, the US, the world bank etc.
I don't know if it a symptom of how bad Romanians had it after the collapse of communism or if it is a hang over from propaganda from that time, but Romanians are definitely the most positive I have met on the communist era in general.

A few other non Romanians I have spoken to about it, have expressed a common theme that it wasn't all bad and they missed the security of it in regards of work, education, healthcare etc, a wish that they could have the best bits of both, but not any desire to return to the old days.
Very interesting. I know nought about Romanian communism, other than the fact that there were dire food shortages in the 80s due to mass exportation of agricultural produce. The boss man had built the economy on massive loans since he came in power in the 60s. When payment was due he sold off the silverware, including the bread and butter, and the house of cards collapsed.
 

Dadaist

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Because the average Tibetan had it so good before the Chinese arrived, not defending China's occupation of Tibet , but serfdom and barbaric legal punishments like eye gouging, is not the image the west portrays of the Dalai Lama for some reason
Yeah, a bit like us Irish savages before the Brits came over and tamed us. Some folk just can't handle freedom.
 

silverharp

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China is not communist - whatever the ruling dictatorship calls itself. It is as capitalist as the good old U.S. of A.
woah there, its not a command economy but Ive heard the term neocommand used to describe it. For example the Chinese state owns all the land in China, you have to lease it from the state eve to build a house and 3/4 of the top 500 companies in China are publicly owned.
 

Cdebru

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Yeah, a bit like us Irish savages before the Brits came over and tamed us. Some folk just can't handle freedom.
Indeed you have to be careful with the propaganda of the invader, but it is not disputed that feudal slavery still existed in Tibet up to and indeed after its occupation, as well as barbaric torture that passed as a legal system, but not a lot of "freedom"
 

former wesleyan

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Because the average Tibetan had it so good before the Chinese arrived, not defending China's occupation of Tibet , but serfdom and barbaric legal punishments like eye gouging, is not the image the west portrays of the Dalai Lama for some reason
I didn't know Peter Clohessy played for Tibet ! Learn something every day.
 

Cdebru

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Very interesting. I know nought about Romanian communism, other than the fact that there were dire food shortages in the 80s due to mass exportation of agricultural produce. The boss man had built the economy on massive loans since he came in power in the 60s. When payment was due he sold off the silverware, including the bread and butter, and the house of cards collapsed.
Yeah, Ceaucescu came to the opinion that they couldn't actually be free as long as they owed money and needed to borrow money whether that was from the West or the USSR, so he set about paying it all off, and by the late 80s they owed nothing, but in doing so he made life very difficult for about 20 years or so, but the belief many Romanians I have met is that they had done the work paying the debt off and now just when they were about to reap the benefit, it was all destroyed.
 

rainmaker

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woah there, its not a command economy but Ive heard the term neocommand used to describe it. For example the Chinese state owns all the land in China, you have to lease it from the state eve to build a house and 3/4 of the top 500 companies in China are publicly owned.
The government may be keeping controlling shares, but it is definitely capitalism that has put Chine where it is - describing China as communist is like describing the Pope as CoE.
 


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