Could the Orange Order help with the cuts?



Arracht

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Simply that their introduction demonstrate that the result of the Williamite wars did not safeguard civil and religious liberties for all, as stated by Northern Voice.
 

Northern Voice

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Simply that their introduction demonstrate that the result of the Williamite wars did not safeguard civil and religious liberties for all, as stated by Northern Voice.
No, it didn't. What it did do, however, was end monarchical absolutism and the shifting religious allegiances of the nation. It provided the foundation by which everybody eventually got a say in government.
 

Cruimh

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Simply that their introduction demonstrate that the result of the Williamite wars did not safeguard civil and religious liberies for all, as stated by Northern Voice.
He didn't state that civil and religious liberty resulted immediately ...... After all until the middle of the 18th century RCs were obliged by the Vatican to withhold allegiance from the Crown. After the death of the Old Pretender things could and did change.
 

Arracht

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He didn't state that civil and religious liberty resulted immediately ......
After all until the middle of the 18th century RCs were obliged by the Vatican to withhold allegiance from the Crown.
Are you therefore of the opinion that if the Williamite victory didn't happen then the UK would still be an absolutist monarchy or perhaps would have all the very slow changes resulting in civil and religious liberties have happened anyway (even at a different rate)?
 

Northern Voice

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Are you therefore of the opinion that if the Williamite victory didn't happen then the UK would still be an absolutist monarchy or perhaps would have all the very slow changes resulting in civil and religious liberties have happened anyway (even at a different rate)?
Well, King James was an absolutist so he would have entrenched that ideology even further had he won at the Boyne, slowing down progress further.
 

Arracht

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Well, King James was an absolutist so he would have entrenched that ideology even further had he won at the Boyne, slowing down progress further.
You are possibly right but I couldn't see him being able to introduce the type of draconian anti-Protestant laws that were brought in against Roman Catholics.
All these laws had to be repealed over a long period of time, therefore religious liberties for all were likely delayed by the Williamite victory.
 

Cruimh

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Are you therefore of the opinion that if the Williamite victory didn't happen then the UK would still be an absolutist monarchy or perhaps would have all the very slow changes resulting in civil and religious liberties have happened anyway (even at a different rate)?
I don't know. I do know that the Civil war and the Williamite Wars were part of the evolution of the UK - and that other countries had different but also bloody paths . The revocation of the Treaty of Nantes, The French Revolution, the Russian Revolution etc.
 

Cruimh

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You are possibly right but I couldn't see him being able to introduce the type of draconian anti-Protestant laws that were brought in against Roman Catholics.
All these laws had to be repealed over a long period of time, therefore religious liberties for all were likely delayed by the Williamite victory.
Remind me, how were protestants treated in France ?
 

Northern Voice

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You are possibly right but I couldn't see him being able to introduce the type of draconian anti-Protestant laws that were brought in against Roman Catholics.
All these laws had to be repealed over a long period of time, therefore religious liberties for all were likely delayed by the Williamite victory.
The fact that James was deposing Protestants from all positions in Ireland and replacing them with Catholics suggests otherwise. We will never know, however.
 

Arracht

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NV, if you,ve never saw that before you are never an Orangeman and even less a student of Irish History.
I'm no fan of the OO but the toast that you quoted reads like propaganda to me.
 

Arracht

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Spain - 20th century - Franco's Concordat with the Vatican 1953 - Roman Catholicism was the only permissible public manifestation of religion.
Has this anything to do with this thread or is an Orange march planned for Cordoba? :D
 


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