Council pay €142,000 for field in Dartmouth Ranelagh - Austerity is only for those not in Dublin 6



Grumpy Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,073
Other interested parties precluding alternative bidders - highly unusual Jack, then again so is today's level of global debt & consistent price falls in Ranelagh... ;)





DaftDrop: The Irish house, apartment & site price history tracker.
It may also be something to do with the fact that the square is zoned as amenity and nothing can be built on it - as O'Gara found out the hard way when he tried to turn it into a car park and then a tile sales outlet.

Why would anyone, apart from the council for the benefit of the community, buy a public park that they cannot make any money from?

And stop trolling and trying to hijack the thread with graphics that are utterly irrelevant to this topic.
 

ivnryn

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
1,303
Probably back in 2005 when O'Gara bought the freehold out from under the noses in DCC - the council should have secured the freehold from Darley when it had the chance. But thankfully, DCC and the residents have fought O'Gara and his ridiculous antics tooth and nail ever since and have now won the day, even though they have had to pay €142k to do so.
Just not really seeing the reason for rage here. If someone else owned the park, then they would be entitled to sell it to anyone they want? The fact that the previous owner sold it for 10k suggests that it wasn't thought to be solid title.

DCC secured a High Court order to wind up O'Gara's company which 'owned' the park over an unpaid legal bill and the liquidator put the park up for sale. O'Gara disputed the value put on it at auction (€140k), claimed it was worth £300k and went to court again over this. He lost and yesterday DCC and residents agreed to pay 'market value' for the site.
Sounds fair, if he owned it? However, that is likely the root of the dispute.

Whatever your feelings about the case in particular, it is pretty bad tactics by a council to threaten CPO as part of the negotiation to buy. Having said that they do it a lot.

Mr Darley had arranged a sale to Dublin City Council but was not paid and sold it to Mr O'Gara.
Totally DDC's fault then? They should have paid the owner for it, if they wanted it.

However, the title was probably assumed to be invalid by DCC, so they didn't pay? It then turned out that it was valid (or at least valid-ish) As I said mess up by DCC.
 

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,355
What a typically snobbish and arrogant post. Working Class people ( as I am ) have many different interests. There is no Football Pitch as there is not in Merrion Square or Stepehens Green. However I have often seen kids play football there - I did myself when I was younger. In the City Council adopted last week we provided for a number of new playgrounds and upgrades to parks across the City.
I made no reference to "working class people" , you did. I merely queried what facilities were there and how welcoming the locals would be of football pitches or playgrounds. will Dartmouth square be getting playground?
 

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,355

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,355

Grumpy Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,073
Just not really seeing the reason for rage here. If someone else owned the park, then they would be entitled to sell it to anyone they want? The fact that the previous owner sold it for 10k suggests that it wasn't thought to be solid title.
The 'rage' comes from the fact that someone claimed they 'bought' and now 'owned' a public park and then attempted to demand the council pay him €100million for it - never mind attempt to operate a private car park or tile sales outlet in a residential area.

Sounds fair, if he owned it? However, that is likely the root of the dispute.
DCC and the residents have always disputed O'Gara's claim he owned the park - based on a loophole going back to when HMG governed Ireland and which has not been closed post-independence.
Whatever your feelings about the case in particular, it is pretty bad tactics by a council to threaten CPO as part of the negotiation to buy. Having said that they do it a lot.
No it is not. It was a public park and O'Gara attempted drive a coach and horses through the local authority's zoning of the area.

Totally DDC's fault then? They should have paid the owner for it, if they wanted it.
DCC should have sorted it out with the Darley's - but to be fair to them, who could have foreseen that O'Gara (or anyone else) would do what he has done in the last 7 years.

However, the title was probably assumed to be invalid by DCC, so they didn't pay? It then turned out that it was valid (or at least valid-ish) As I said mess up by DCC.
It's more than that - it's a quirk in the law that dates back to British rule and has not been dealt with post-1922 and post-1937. This is not an isolated case. O'Gara is at the same thing in Terenure and there are other cases around the country of freeholds on what have for decades been public land being sold by descendents of former Anglo-Irish landowners who now live in the UK and elsewhere.

What do you think the reaction would be if someone claimed they and bought St Stephen's Green or Phoenix Park and closed it to the public? Or the Mardyke in Cork? Or your local park?
 

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,355
The 'rage' comes from the fact that someone claimed they 'bought' and now 'owned' a public park and then attempted to demand the council pay him €100million for it - never mind attempt to operate a private car park or tile sales outlet in a residential area.



DCC and the residents have always disputed O'Gara's claim he owned the park - based on a loophole going back to when HMG governed Ireland and which has not been closed post-independence.


No it is not. It was a public park and O'Gara attempted drive a coach and horses through the local authority's zoning of the area.



DCC should have sorted it out with the Darley's - but to be fair to them, who could have foreseen that O'Gara (or anyone else) would do what he has done in the last 7 years.



It's more than that - it's a quirk in the law that dates back to British rule and has not been dealt with post-1922 and post-1937. This is not an isolated case. O'Gara is at the same thing in Terenure and there are other cases around the country of freeholds on what have for decades been public land being sold by descendents of former Anglo-Irish landowners who now live in the UK and elsewhere.

What do you think the reaction would be if someone claimed they and bought St Stephen's Green or Phoenix Park and closed it to the public? Or the Mardyke in Cork? Or your local park?
Irrespective of what you think, he legally acquired the land and was entitled to apply for variation of its use. it was only "public" by custom, not in law. I personally think that rennnellah would have benefitted from a park and ride facility for the nearby LUAS or those living in the arrea where on street parking is limited
 

dunno

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
1,263
This was a public park and local amenity. If the old arrangement for the park was impossible, it had to be purchased.
 

Grumpy Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,073
Irrespective of what you think, he legally acquired the land and was entitled to apply for variation of its use. it was only "public" by custom, not in law. I personally think that rennnellah would have benefitted from a park and ride facility for the nearby LUAS or those living in the arrea where on street parking is limited
The whole dispute centres on whether O'Gara actually acquired the land or not when he paid Darley €10k. The council and residents dispute this.

As for your ludicrous other 'idea', park and ride facilities are for outer suburbs to encourage people living further out again to leave their cars outside the city and use public transport into the city - instead of clogging city streets with traffic.

What is the point of spending €700m on a Luas line to encourage people on public transport to reduce car traffic in the city and inner suburbs and then stick a P&R facility two stops from the city centre?

That's why P&R on the Green line are in Stillorgan, Sandyford and out to Cherrywood - and on the Red line at the Red Cow and in Tallaght and Citywest.

Seriously, if you do not know what you are talking about, don't bother commenting instead of posting every ignorant brainfart.
 

Dublin 4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
12,732
And stop trolling and trying to hijack the thread with graphics that are utterly irrelevant to this topic.
You're the troll denying reality...

The Park was expected to be bid for & the worsening global economy is directly relevant to the Property Market...

Dartmouth Square in Dublin 6 attracted no bids at the latest Allsop/Space auction in the Shelbourne Hotel today - despite the fact it was among the most eagerly anticipated lots due under the hammer.


No bids on Dartmouth Sq at auction - The Irish Times - Tue, Dec 04, 2012

There's another graphic you cheeky brat...
 

zakalwe1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
5,241
completely off topic...
but the earl of roscommon, whose seat was in garbally (before it became a catholic boys school), bequethed the village green in the centre of ballinasloe to benefit of the "people" of ballinasloe.
what happened....
the council gave a large portion to the GAA who promptly built high walls around it and charge the "people" to watch matches on their own land.
the council then decided it would be in the peoples interests for state of the art council buildings to occupy another significant part of it.
what remains today of the "gift" is a patch of green in the centre which is only about 20-30% of the original.

i suspect that this is not an isolated case.

end rant
 

Grumpy Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,073
You're the troll denying reality...

The Park was expected to be bid for & the worsening global economy is directly relevant to the Property Market...





No bids on Dartmouth Sq at auction - The Irish Times - Tue, Dec 04, 2012
Again, why would anyone bid for a plot of land they cannot make any money from commercially because of city council zonings?

O'Gara paid €10k for it in 2005 thinking he would make a killing out of it - how much has it cost him since?

It was eagerly anticipated because there was an interest in whether DCC or residents of Dartmouth would bid for it and how much they would be willing to pay.
 

Dublin 4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
12,732
Inter alia people buy property if they think it is going to go up in value.

Clearly property is going down in value- in Ranelagh, Dublin & all parts of Ireland.

You're entitled to your view of why it was anticipated but Property is still going down & set to continue going down...
 

Dublin 4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
12,732
Dartmouth Square was not the only property to fail to sell. Of the 65 properties which had gone up for auction by 1.45pm, 12 had either failed to meet their reserve or been withdrawn.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
 

Grumpy Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
6,073
People buy property if they think it is going to go up in value.

Clearly property is going down in value- in Ranelagh, Dublin & all of Ireland.

You're entitled to your view of why it was anticipated but Property is still going down & set to continue going down...
So then why would you expect any buyer - outside the council - to bid on a public park at the centre of a legal dispute that has cost the most recent 'owner' a small fortune in legal bills alone and the liquidation of one of his companies?
 

Mackers

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
5,453
I could be wrong but didn't the O'Gara boy try to get nearly a million for it? Something about offering it to the people who lived near it to buy it. I think I heard him on the radio at that time spouting off about it. :(
 

Dublin 4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
12,732
So then why would you expect any buyer - outside the council - to bid on a public park at the centre of a legal dispute that has cost the most recent 'owner' a small fortune in legal bills alone and the liquidation of one of his companies?
Some people expect others to speculate on a recovery.

I'm not the one who "anticipated" the Auction result.

Property is going down but if people want to buy now in the hope that it rises later then thats up to them.

Are you denying that Property is going down?
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top