Court frees Flood/Mahon Tribunal to publish Final Report

alonso

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THE WAY has been cleared for the planning tribunal to publish its final report after the Supreme Court threw out the last remaining legal challenge to the inquiry.


The court yesterday disallowed an appeal by developer Owen O’Callaghan and other Cork-based individuals and companies against a High Court decision upholding the tribunal’s refusal to circulate draft findings before publication of its report.
Court frees tribunal to publish final report - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 25, 2010

Wonder how Bertie will be feeling?

13 years and €250 million so far spent to uncover some truth in the shenanigans of these people.

And before anyone says it, this is part of the banking scandal, this is part of the collapse of Ireland and this is vital in protecting the people from such political corruption happening again. Without the depths of intrigue in the nexus exposed by Mahon/Flood between Fianna Fail and the Builders, we maybe would not as readily know about other goings on between the whole lot of em and the banks. The property sector in Ireland that caused our bankrupcy, the original Golden Circle will hopefully be outed, officially, in all theior glory.
 


gijoe

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The timing could not be better as well with the election imminent.
 
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As I posted earlier on this ruling, the delay might well have been a godsend for Mahon. the context into which the report will be delivered has changed completely (though complaints about cost will be used as a smokescreen), people are no longer prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to people like Ahern. The government will have changed, FF will be in meltdown, FG and Labour will accept the findings in full as the new government, and FF will be anxious to distance themselves from the corruption and recklessness of the Ahern years. Nobody is going to want to put their head on the block defending a discredited has-been now. O'Callaghan's delays might have backfired on him and on Ahern - and O'Callaghan is going to have a very bad report into his activities with Dunlop, I am guessing. Even the Irish Examiner and Evening Echo might stop allowing themselves to be used as a virtual PR vehicle for him if and when Mahon condemns his and Dunlop's activities.
 

FakeViking

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The timing could not be better as well with the election imminent.
It depends on how our new masters will react. They may decide that it's time for Mahon to ride off into the sunset unpublished, or they may want to use our recent history be laid bare as an example to other countries. Intriguing.
 
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It depends on how our new masters will react. They may decide that it's time for Mahon to ride off into the sunset unpublished, or they may want to use our recent history be laid bare as an example to other countries. Intriguing.
No way will it not be published now. FF couldn't stop them, FG and Labour have no reason to stop them. The costs and time used would be thrown down the drain if they didn't publish. The report is coming, the last throw of the dice by Mahon's opponents has failed..
 
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€250 million is now looking like small beans compared to the mess we're in fiscally and due to the banks. Hopefully the report can be published now as soon as possible.
 

BertsBeard

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It will be interesting if the new government decide to go for the throat if the report points fingers at some big names.
People need a change in the way political business is done in this country and if the guilty (if the report suggests guilt) are allowed to escape justice the true face of our next government will be revealed.
What message would it send to crooks in this country if someone like an Ahern was sent off to prison in cuffs and a jump suit? Anyone have any hope that this could happen?
 

Social Conscience

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I can't wait for this report to be published but don't be under any illusions that Teflon Bertie will slider away to the undergrowth before he launches he presidential bid.
 

QuizMaster

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If any FFers are reading, I think you should run Bertie for president. A lot of people would like the opportunity to vote for him*.



*or not, as the case may be.
 

onthefence

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If any FFers are reading, I think you should run Bertie for president. A lot of people would like the opportunity to vote for him*.



*or not, as the case may be.
The Gallows humour ;-)
 

Skinner

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Its a pity that those that made large sums from the tribunal are most likely hiding under the NAMA umbrella by now :evil:

Agree with toxic, the delaying tactic has not worked out well and our new masters may well be pleased that some of the dirt could get aired in public.
 

MsAnneThrope

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Irish Times says it could still be another 6 months before it's published. Pity, as it would have made a nice stocking filler for Christmas.
 

flavirostris

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And before anyone says it, this is part of the banking scandal, this is part of the collapse of Ireland and this is vital in protecting the people from such political corruption happening again. Without the depths of intrigue in the nexus exposed by Mahon/Flood between Fianna Fail and the Builders, we maybe would not as readily know about other goings on between the whole lot of em and the banks. The property sector in Ireland that caused our bankrupcy, the original Golden Circle will hopefully be outed, officially, in all theior glory.
The electorate didn't care about Bertie Ahern's corruption 4 years ago, believing it was trifling stuff in the overall scheme of things.

It's a pity the country had to be brought to the edge of destruction to wake them up to the fact that it does matter...very very much
 
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The electorate didn't care about Bertie Ahern's corruption 4 years ago, believing it was trifling stuff in the overall scheme of things.

It's a pity the country had to be brought to the edge of destruction to wake them up to the fact that it does matter...very very much
And for that reason it can never be emphasised enough, and should be repeatedly raised, Ahern appointed LIAM LAWLOR head of the Dáil Ethics Committee. He and his pals thought it a hilarious joke, they knew all about Lawlor and what he was up to. I wonder if the joke would be seen as so funny nowadays, if repeatedly brought up...
 

Watch The Break

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And for that reason it can never be emphasised enough, and should be repeatedly raised, Ahern appointed LIAM LAWLOR head of the Dáil Ethics Committee. He and his pals thought it a hilarious joke, they knew all about Lawlor and what he was up to. I wonder if the joke would be seen as so funny nowadays, if repeatedly brought up...
The finest example of their arrogance perhaps?

Bertie, man of the people, just not our people.
 

flavirostris

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And for that reason it can never be emphasised enough, and should be repeatedly raised, Ahern appointed LIAM LAWLOR head of the Dáil Ethics Committee. He and his pals thought it a hilarious joke, they knew all about Lawlor and what he was up to. I wonder if the joke would be seen as so funny nowadays, if repeatedly brought up...
Call it a learning curve maybe but right now, the Irish People are getting a very tough lesson about the importance of standards in public office.

Most people here think that low standards in high places does not really matter, as long as things are going Ok.

I'll never forget how Ahern's ( and FF's ) popularity ratings went through the roof after the revelations about his finances and that interview with RTE's favourite poodle ( now turned junkyard dog ). I remember feeling sick to my stomach during that.

The current nightmare will have woken up a lot of people to Ahern but the tragedy is that country had to be almost destroyed to do so.
 
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Call it a learning curve maybe but right now, the Irish People are getting a very tough lesson about the importance of standards in public office.

Most people here think that low standards in high places does not really matter, as long as things are going Ok.

I'll never forget how Ahern's ( and FF's ) popularity ratings went through the roof after the revelations about his finances and that interview with RTE's favourite poodle ( now turned junkyard dog ). I remember feeling sick to stomach about that.

The current nightmare will have woken up a lot of people to Ahern but the tragedy is that country had to be almost destroyed to do so.
I actually think a lot of people were duped. Yes, the culture of admiring the cute hoor who gets away with it is widespread, but I honestly believe that a lot of people believed as plausible (and had no information with which to contradict it) the story of a man on his uppers living in a constituency office with slightly messy finances because of a divorce. It was only in the following year and a half that the story was ripped to pieces and it became apparent that there was no dig-out, no dinner, no whiparound, no briefcase of money, that they were all cover stories for money received in foreign currencies. And even then, many people understandably found it difficult to follow the story and the trail (many people even on this site still wrongly think there were dig-outs and whip-arounds).

I think that the media has a duty to air these points, and they rarely do (part of the wider failure of mainstream media here to hold the government to account). The Lawlor Ethics Committee story should be repeatedly rammed down Ahern's throat, but it never is...
 

ONQ

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With the best will in the world, I cannot see how irregularities in Bertie's financial affairs - and there were many, let's not deny that at least - could have led to the current situation, directly or indirectly.

Yes, there are croneyisms in banks.
I got my first car while in my last year college when an accountant I had been introduced to gave me an introduction to an loan officer to secure a loan of 2K.

I had little or no means of support you see, but I had been doing good work in my summer holidays for a company to which he provided accounting services and I had been offered a job there the following summer, so... that's how it goes. Someone else also went guarantor on the loan, so there was a minimisation of risk all round.
I have been a loyal customer of that bank since then [21 years and counting], so there was a payback.

The point being that while I could have DEFAULTED [topical word] or not passed my thesis year, but the default was unlikely because it was small money, I still needed the car and I would have been able to pay them back evening getting a juniors rate of pay.

The scale of the risk is the key - banks take risks with money any time they lend - and I still had to divulge all my details of my existing student loans and prospective earnings to them.

Now I fail to see that offering any kind of beneftis to Bertie on his relatively low scales of risks could have resutled directly in the debacle of today, which was caused by SOMEONE deciding they would engage in risky speculative development loans in what was obviously an inflationery property bubble.

It is a totally different scale of risk, and I think the contributors to this thread who are Bertie bashing need to pause and seriously look at what this makes them out to be.
I don't condone croneyism, but its one effective means to combat a "closed door" mentality or blatant Sectarianism, which we've also had to deal with in this island, north and south.
So to get off the Bertie Bashing and get on to the topic, I think people will find there was corruption on all sides, Labour, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.

Even in terms only of the people Frank Dunlop dealt with, we already know there was an all-party approach taken - he did with anyone who helped his clients cause, in his eyes.
And throughout this debate, in Tribunals or without, no real investigation has been undertaken of the closed door approach taken by the Green Propertycompany and John Corcoran.

Green Properties controlled the Blanchardstown Shopping Centre site and at the time of the vote to confirm the zoning on Quarryvale had been "developing" that site for IIRC 18 or twenty years, something of that order.
There were undoubtedly sound business arguments in favour of him delaying the development still further, until the population edges closer in Blanchardstown to themagic 100,000 figure.
And it is quite understandable that when Quarryvale suddenly looked like the investors had a figurehead [O'Callaghan] who could do the business, Corcoran et al perceived that they would steal market share from Blanchardstown they might be a long while in recovering - its referred to in business terms as "Establishing Goodwill".

Green Properties conducted a negative publicity campaign that divided the communities of Palmerstown, Blanchardstown and the City Center Traders from those of Lucan Clondalkin and Quarryvale itself, now a large suburbe composed mainly of publci sector housing.
Through rallies and negative propaganda in Mulhuddart and elsewhere north of the Liffey Green Properties sought to undermine support for Quarryvale, what was later to become known as Liffey Valley Shopping Centera.
I recall attending at one memorable public meeting in the Spawell Hotel where Prionsias McGiolla spoke disparagingly of Owen O'Callaghan as that "litte Cork housebuilder".

Faced with that kind of powerhouse uttering negatives, Dunlop was given the job of securing the vote, but for people to believe that the vote turned solely on brown paper envelopes would be mistaken.
Well over 15,000 signatures of members of the electorate were collected from both sides - as well as from vested interests and lobby and a formal Mini-EIS Submission was presented to the planning officer, Geraldine Boothman in support of the rezoning, incorporating supporting documentation from both Auveen Byrne and Ove Arups, the former well-respected in national Terms and Ove Arups having an international profile even then.

Yes you can bung a few quid a Councillors, but over 15,000 signatures takes not one but several public meetings in order to explain and present the scheme to the people who will be most affected by it.
And yes, you can utter propaganda, but formal submissions by respected professionals get analysed in detail by well-thought of senior planners and there is a record of all of this.
For Joe Public to be misled into beleiving that Quarryvale/Liffey Valley was all a con job, that it had no merits of its own, or even that there was a level playing field is to misrepresent the facts as they were at that time.

Things are never all black and white and that development has conferred huge benefits on the North Clondalkin area, so I'd be careful of jumping on the Bertie-Bashing Bandwagon.
Unless you have proof of your allegations, and can causally link the things he did or were done for him to the situation we are in today, you may be in danger of libelling or slandering the man. The law is not a rumour mill, and judges tend to look unfavourably on those who abuse the privilege of being able to make public utterances.
You can start by understanding the whole Quarryvale issue in its entirety, the above being only a sketch, but one thing I will say - I never saw Bertie give any support to it at all.

Bertie had other agendas, not the least of which was his lack of support for the National Stadium, which O'Callaghan also proposed in Balgaddy, on a 33-acre site of land at the south end of the Fonthil Road. This was to be serviced by a new Naas Motorway, still not completed, and a new rail link, and so would not bring congestion into the city centre.
But Bertie wanted the Bertie Bowl for his North Dublin constituents to enjoy, and his lack of support for a major sports undertaking which at one point was to see Sam and Ned Haman's Winbledon Football Club be based in Dublin and Premier League [Super-Leage as it was then called] Matches be played in Dublin, was one reason why the natural development of Dublin to the West has been curtailed.

Similar political favouraitsm was to see teh relocation of the Abby Theatre to a site south of the Liffey prevented.

So seeking Berties hand in this matter may be a fruitless exercise, although it went on even at Barrister level in the Trubunal at the time. I remember when they had fonud out about Joe the Builder and were then looking to Tim Collins the Taoiseach's pal as the possible mastermind behind Quarryvale - anybody associated with Bertie was given front page billign in the Meeja.

But little fuss was made of the quarter of a million demanded of Frank Dunlop by the late Tom Hand, neither Therese Ridge nor John Bruton either ealing with this allegation at the time or referring it to Gardaí. Therese did nto want to spread rumours - very civil minded of her I must admit - but Bruton - in my opinion, it seemed he had a duty to investigate it and failed to do so for whatever reasons.

Liam Lawlor was deeply involved in all these things as you know, but Lawlor was by all accounts his own man, and keen to stick his finger in every pie and misrepresent and inflate his level of authority at a time when a culture of backhanders and brown paper bags were endemic to the political process.

Lawlor was supposed independent ebven from Haughey, but who appointed him to be a member of the Trilateral Commission? It may be convenient to focus on Bertie because he is still alive, but one main political force in West Dublin was Liam Lawlor and he was involved in every majot political story in the ensuing years, but Lawlor and Bertie were not allies within the party as far as I am aware.

I am happy to stand corrected on any and all of the above - but offer me proofs, not unfounded opinions or biased political garbage, because I've lived through it and knew many of the players.

FWIW

ONQ.
 
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droghedasouth

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And for that reason it can never be emphasised enough, and should be repeatedly raised, Ahern appointed LIAM LAWLOR head of the Dáil Ethics Committee. He and his pals thought it a hilarious joke, they knew all about Lawlor and what he was up to. I wonder if the joke would be seen as so funny nowadays, if repeatedly brought up...
Giving Ivor Callelly a Taoiseach's senate seat was part of the same taking the p1$$ strategy.

By the way, how is Ivor.
The cataclysm since since White Flag Thursday September 30th 2010 means that Ivor will do a Fingleton and hang onto every undeserved penny he scammed off us.
 


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