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Cowen and Lenihan are being extremely disingenuous


roc_

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Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,268
Another new shibboleth coming into vogue with the FF party is calling for the opposition parties to come up with proposals for addressing our financial problems.

eg. RT News: Cowen will listen to Opposition proposals
However, he said he was open to proposals from all parties on the country's path to economic recovery.
Or, Lenihan challenges opposition to reveal plans - Independent.ie
FINANCE Minister Brian Lenihan last night threw down the gauntlet to the opposition by challenging them to clearly state how they would tackle the country's problems.
BUT, what good is this?! At this point in time it is only possible to shuffle around the figures, do the same thing in a number of different ways...

When it became apparent (some time ago, now) that the property sector was going to collapse and significant losses occur (as per any other property collapse in history, with an eye to the extent that our bubble was blown above historical norms), the only real question was WHO IS GOING TO PAY?

FF conclusively answered that question back in 2008 with the blanket guarantee and NAMA - ie. the tax payer was going to pay, and they made it so that it was next to impossible (for a variety of reasons) to revert this decision.

The thing is pretty much DONE - In my opinion, the best thing the opposition parties could do is call for our taxation system to be split into two streams - those taxes going towards public services, and those taxes going towards paying off the bank and property and political gambling and corruption debts.

At least that would enable us to learn our lesson well - if every month for the next fifteen, twenty years, each working person could see in black and white the exact amount of money he was handing over to pay for the past actions of our political and business dynasty, it might serve to focus the mind and promote a sounder political consciousness in our people.
 
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dónal na geallaí

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Mar 29, 2010
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I like the idea of itemising where the income tax goes,rather like a phone bill.It would certainly concentrate the mind wonderfully.You would have the ordinary tax and then this great wodge labelled: Banks and builders surcharge.Why not?
 

flavirostris

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They're the government and they were elected to govern, what do they want opposition proposals for.
Have you heard of Cameron & Clegg appealing to Labour for proposals to cut the deficit?
 

the_rebubblican

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Mar 24, 2010
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Mammy O'Rourke once again said on Newstalk that all parties should come clear and present their plans with an election thereafter having had access to the figures. Brilliant politics by FF. Level the playing field by having just one agenda i.e. cuts and reform. FF have nothing to lose by playing hard ball as they are heading for a hammering but they'll be able to maximise their vote by proving to the one party staters in the electorate (23-25%+) that they're back in the game by shredding the opposition parties. The aim now is for the least painful way out as regards seat numbers....
 

kerdasi amaq

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Aug 24, 2009
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I would suggest that any new taxes and charges would have to submitted to the People in a referendum for approval before they are introduced.

We must cripple the ability of future Fianna Fáil governments(if any) to introduce new taxes and charges on their own authority.
 

Aindriu

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I would suggest that any new taxes and charges would have to submitted to the People in a referendum for approval before they are introduced.

We must cripple the ability of future Fianna Fáil governments(if any) to introduce new taxes and charges on their own authority.
Nearly right. We actually need to cripple Fianna FAIL full stop!!
 

johntrenchard

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Nov 7, 2009
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Nearly right. We actually need to cripple Fianna FAIL full stop!!
cripple is too good for them. we have to DESTROY Fianna Fail. forever.

this is the FOURTH time they have brought the country to the brink of ruin:

1930s trade war, 1950s depression, 1970s/80s recession and now this one.
 

turdsl

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Mar 2, 2008
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26,085
This the proof, they really are admitting that the have destroyed this country, people are now under much pressure, They must be put out of office, They have destroyed the good name of our country,Brian Lenihan went to Brussels a few weeks ago, his plan for Anglo was turned down, He failed to settle the bond auctions, hence the high price, now he has called off bond auctions for the rest of the year Our word is no longer trustworthy, markets do not want know us. He has to produce a four year pan to Mr Rihn the new boss of this country, I wonder will he tell this man in Brussels that he has to get the permisssion of Jackie Healy Rae down in South Kerry before he goes anywhere with his proposals . Jackie will have to get the roads around Kilgarven looked after first.
Mr Lenihan and Cowen must get out of the way now. They have no mandate to plan anything.
.
 

kerdasi amaq

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlCu4LTCbuI]YouTube - Don't Panic! Terror Alert level raised![/ame]

Lenihan gets a mention here. Up first​
.
 

BloggerBob

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Sep 24, 2010
Messages
130
Not convinced a "dual" tax itemisation would work. Problem is there is still not enough revenue to cover costs regardless of how it is spread. Real reform has to happen and that will have to include serious tax changes at some stage. We need to get real and decide that if we want 1st world services we need to pay for them, we are a country with 4m people with supported by a workforce of under 2m with 25% of those not paying tax. Tax reliefs on artists and the bloodstock industry needs to go as does tax relief on union subscriptions and bin collections. What about really having a dig at the rest of Europe and bring our corporation tax down to 11.5% or 11 % - remember that is the only reason most US companies are here - not for our self delusional notion that the Irish are amongst the best educated and hardest working in Europe. Yes our product quality output is not bad and we work a longer year then the Germans, but the standard of our Grads is getting poorer. Meaningful and real reform of the public service also (and yes I am private sector - I supply into the public sector) to take place. Not just lip service by the social partners saying this. But real tangiable reform - I would love to see a Minister for Finance with real cojones tell Impact and the rest to either get with the programme or a reverse benchmarking process will kick in. An example of real reform could be having operating theatres and radiography services working 24/7, give the Consulatants a choice of either public or private patients (private would go to private hospitals only) none of this dual status senario. Replace back office administraors with frontline staff, unions should be ok with this as staff numbers will the same just a different emphasis on those that actually work. Put the sick pay scheme in line with the private sector - after all guys you are being benchmarked with them. I could go on but I think you get the picture.
 
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Limerick Lad

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Nov 17, 2006
Messages
4,609
Mammy O'Rourke once again said on Newstalk that all parties should come clear and present their plans with an election thereafter having had access to the figures. Brilliant politics by FF. Level the playing field by having just one agenda i.e. cuts and reform. FF have nothing to lose by playing hard ball as they are heading for a hammering but they'll be able to maximise their vote by proving to the one party staters in the electorate (23-25%+) that they're back in the game by shredding the opposition parties. The aim now is for the least painful way out as regards seat numbers....
I seem to remember that prior to the 2007 General Election opposition parties were allowed access to the "figures" from the Department of Finance to enable them to cost their projected policies yet six weeks post the election we were informed that the Department's figures and projections now had to be revised downwards due to changed financial circumstances which apparently weren't foreseeable some six weeks earlier, so why would any opposition trust any data supplied to them by the Department while it is under the political control of another party.
 

Mitsui2

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Nov 13, 2009
Messages
33,328
In my opinion, the best thing the opposition parties could do is call for our taxation system to be split into two streams - those taxes going towards public services, and those taxes going towards paying off the bank and property and political gambling and corruption debts.

At least that would enable us to learn our lesson well - if every month for the next fifteen, twenty years, each working person could see in black and white the exact amount of money he was handing over to pay for the past actions of our political and business dynasty, it might serve to focus the mind and promote a sounder political consciousness in our people.
You know, there's something to be said for this idea. We could call it the "Friends of Fianna Fáil tax."
 

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