Cowen fury at BBC over 'when not whether' bailout claim - Sunday Independent

Marcos the black

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
18,458
Show me where he ever admitted he was drunk as you said he did, otherwise you're a liar, end of.

Tonic, givien the fact that these are the dying days of this cancerous regime can you not now at this late stage bring yourself to critise their actions? Please show us theres some hope for the future.
 


euroboy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
322
I have said it before, but the quality of economic journalism in this country is seriously lacking.

Not only do our journalists not know what they are talking about most of the time, they cart out know-nothings dressed up as 'experts' when really they are not. The media are then not able to challenge off the wall assertions by these so called 'experts'. Sometimes there is quality, but it is not the norm.

I don't think Ireland needs a bailout, but we do need to speed up the adjustment process on the fiscal problem. It is true we are having a crisis with our bonds in the secondary market, which is feeding into a hostile bond market if we were to issue new bonds. But the markets are acting irrationally with some bits of true mixed in for good measure. We need to take a step back and less of the hysteria.

We are running a massive budget deficit, even when we exclude the bank bailout, and our national debt has risen very quickly. This is alarming and will reduce our standard of living for years to come as we service those debts. But those interest repayments are managable at the present, if we achieve a relatively stable fiscal position. In this regard, we have been very slow to make real progress. We should have addressed the deficit two years ago. If we did, it is likely we wouldn't have needed to add an additional 10-15bn onto our national debt, placing us in a better position to absorb the debts of the banks without concerning the international markets.

As for the bailout, why do we need it? The market turmoil should force us to speed us our fiscal adjustment, not jump to be bailed out. The market turmoil doesn't affect the interest payments on outstanding bonds. Even with our decimated tax base, the country is still capable of generating 30bn in tax revenue(I would like to see use raise 50bn in taxes). If we had to live on that, it would be tough, but there is scope to increase taxes and cut wastage and fund public services by taxes bypassing the need to borrow (except for the bank bailout).

We shouldn't be railroaded into accessing the bailout fund, because there is alot of noise in the markets. We are very weak economically, but the Irish economy is stronger than many think to absorb the shocks of the housing crisis.
 
Last edited:

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
We do not have a "bailout" problem right now, the EU may have, but we do not.
 

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,355
Additional from the BBC site-more concise and clear than anything the business/economic/bs corespeondents here have done to explain how far up the creek sans paddle we are

Q&A: Irish bond crisis
By Nils Blythe
BBC business correspondent

There are concerns that the Irish Republic may have to seek external assistance
Continue reading the main story
Global Economy

Currency war's key battlegrounds
Currency wars; what are they? Watch
G20 agrees to address currencies
Recovery rates slow across Europe
The Irish Republic faces a crisis of confidence in the financial markets.

The "cost of borrowing" for the Irish government is rising. But what does this really mean?

What is a government bond?

Governments borrow money by selling securities known as bonds to investors. In return for the investor's cash the government promises to pay a fixed rate of interest over a specific period - say 4% every year for 10 years. At the end of the period the investor is repaid the cash they originally paid, cancelling that particular bit of government debt. Government bonds have traditionally been seen as ultra-safe long-term investments and are held by pension funds, insurance companies and banks, as well as private investors.

What is a bond market?

Once a bond has been issued - and the government has the cash - the investor can hold it and collect the interest every year until it is repayable. But investors can also sell the bond on the financial markets. The price of the bond will fluctuate as the outlook for interest rates changes. So, for example, if the markets think that interest rates are going to rise sharply, then the value of a bond paying a fixed rate of 4% for the next ten years will fall. Bond prices will also fall if investors think that there is a risk of the government that issued the bond not being able to make the annual interest payment or repay it in full on maturity - and these are the fears which have been pushing down Irish bond prices.

What is a bond yield?

This sounds complicated, but isn't! The yield is the return received by an investor who buys the bond at today's market price. Let's take an example. A bond is sold by a government for 100 euros, paying an annual interest rate of 4%, or 4 euros per year. The yield is 4%. But then the market price of the bond falls to 50 euros. The interest payment (the coupon) is still 4 euros per year. So for a 50 euro investment the investor can get a 4 euro annual payment, which is a return or "yield" of 8%. Market commentators usually quote bond yields, rather than prices. The key thing to remember is that bad news drives down bond prices, which pushes up bond yields.

Why do bond markets matter?

Because they determine what it costs a government to borrow. When a government wants to raise new money it issues new bonds. But those bonds have to pay an annual interest rate which is close to the current yield for bonds which it has issued earlier and are now being traded in the market (see above). So if a crisis of confidence drives up market yields the government has to pay more for new borrowings - possibly a lot more. (But remember that it does not affect the cost of paying the annual interest of existing bonds, because the interest rate is fixed for the life of the bond).

What has happened to Irish bonds?

Market prices have fallen in recent months, pushing up the yields (see above). The yield on a 10-year Irish bond reached about 9% at one point. That is very high. The UK government - in spite of all its financial difficulties - can borrow for 10 years at just over 3%.

What happens next?

The Irish government says it is "fully funded" until next June - in other words it does not have to raise new money in the bond markets until next summer, although it has also said that it intends to return to the market for new funding in January. At current market prices and yields it might hesitate to do so. But much can change in two months. The obvious alternative is to turn to the International Monetary Fund and the European Union (which means principally the members of the eurozone). This is what Greece did when yields on Greek bonds reached levels which effectively closed down the possibility of raising money from the bond markets.
 

Tomas Mor

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
10,351
where now the corners turned , not much mention now of green shoots. We have been told so much lies that anything is possible.
 

Partizan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
7,777
We do not have a "bailout" problem right now, the EU may have, but we do not.
Tony, if you say it often and loud enough, you might actually believe your own delusion.

Repeat after me;

"We do not need a bail out......."

happy thoughts of fluffy bunnies and sheep appear.
 

Goldencircle

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
1,201
tonic your are full of sh!te,

On here everyday pretending to know something when you don't have a clue. Its pathetic.
How do you honestly expect anyone to take you seriously when you waffle on about economics. Pure spoof.
Everything you say is bull, absolutely everything.

Your masters are at the end, get over it.
They have brought us along with them so it might take a little longer.
We all know your not stupid so give it a rest.

Cowen is finished both home and abroad.
 

Radix

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
9,892
We do not have a "bailout" problem right now, the EU may have, but we do not.
Tonic, cop on a wee bit.

Post from England........


Who borrowed billions to buy or build big houses, bought flash cars, holidays abroad, great big camper vans and holiday homes? Who paid themselves billions in wages that far outstripped those in the rest of Europe? Whose public sector has the highest wage and pension bill in Europe? Whose politicians are the highest paid in Europe? Who voted like sheep time and time again for the Euro, for Lisbon and all the other bloody EU treaties without reading and discussing the details properly? Who voted the politicians in to power? Who bought up massively expensive property is Ireland, the UK, the USA? Who???? The Irish! Did anyone in Ireland challenge the 'economic miracle' of the Celtic Tiger? No! You borrowed and borrowed and borrowed and spent and spent and built and no-one challenged the acts of the individual, the developer, the banks or the politicians. No-one else is to blame for the mess you are in except the Irish people as a collective. I've been travelling to Ireland since the 70's and have seen massive changes in that time, mostly good ones, however in the past 10 years all I have seen is greed and avarice where fools borrowed much, much more than they could afford and did not have the sense to see where their actions would lead. So don't try blaming the bankers or the politicians or any other single group. It was a collective failure with greed on all sides. Those who will now suffer are the poorest in society but that is the fault of the Irish people who failed to take care of their own personal, local and national responsibilities, not of Europe, nor for once can the UK be blamed (which seems to make a change). The reason that the EU is now taking control of Irish affairs is because you broke the covenant with the EU to run a responsible economy. It's too late to moan about it now. The time for reflection on the effect of the EU in Ireland was when you voted for the Euro. You have my complete sympathy as a nation and I truly hope you get back in control very soon but blaming others is a nonsense. Grow up and take your medicine. We in the UK will be taking ours very soon.


Bailout, emergency rescue fund, whatever you want to call it, is needed! Thousands of people are losing their jobs every month that goes by.

We desperately need to reinflate the real economy based on production. Is this not what allows banks to print money in the honest economy we so badly need to see emerge?
 

Dreaded_Estate

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
3,744

ALAN42

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
84
We do not have a "bailout" problem right now, the EU may have, but we do not.
How many are left in the bunker now that the Europeans are at the gate ? A Minister or two , a couple of bewildered backbenchers and some FF youth manning the barricades ?
 

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,355
has dan boyle not tweeted on this yet-l await confirmation by the publishing of his opinion/greens last stand etc
 

ocoonassa

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
6,124
When a government wants to raise new money it issues new bonds.
I would like to understand why a government can't just issue new money instead of bonds.
 

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,355
I would like to understand why a government can't just issue new money instead of bonds.
because the ECB controls essentially the flow of money
 

Sham96

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
578
When people take to the streets later this month/December marchers should include Independent newspapers and RTE in their protests. The Irish media (apart from a minority of journos) has been implicit in their support of this corrupt regime.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top