CPSU 'Fingers' Fingerprint Machine

gombeensville

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Dec 18, 2008
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If there is a genuine legal reason why clerical officers can't fingerprint people (I would be assuming its in the same realm as clerical staff issuing parking tickets, which is also technically illegal), then the idiot that ordered the machine without thinking it through should be brought to book. "Systems failure" no doubt.

If its about an allowance, i.e. extra cash payments, for what is essentially a non-technical job during normal office hours then I think, in the current context, they're really pushing credibility.
 


dent

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There also has to be a perception that two wrongs dont make a right
Proof, if we needed it, that the cuts HAVE to start from the top.
 

havesomeimagination

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Yes and there are many private companies already using biometric scanners of all sorts to authenticate their employees & others. We don't need to waste police time indulging PS unions looking for an excuse to make a quick buck.
There's a big difference between that and extracting biometric data for use in international police databases under assumptions of criminality.

This is a civil liberties issue for the immigrants as well as a health and safety, ethical and terms of employment issue for staff.

My point is the RTE report simplified all this to 'greedy civil servants look for more money', which played nicely to the prejudices of many of the posters on this site, without bothering to explain the wider issues involved or to interview any of the people centrally affected. To my mind that is just sh1t journalism.
 

hmmm

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This is a civil liberties issue for the immigrants as well as a health and safety, ethical and terms of employment issue for staff.
If I believed a word of that I'd still be wondering why the payment of money to the staff makes this problem go away?
 

havesomeimagination

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If I believed a word of that I'd still be wondering why the payment of money to the staff makes this problem go away?
As I said above we only have a biased RTE report to go on for that.

And even if some staff were willing to do it for an allowance, the issue is still a civil liberties issue for immigrants. This aspect was entirely ignored by RTE who implicitly assumed that criminalising immigrants by fingerprinting them is obviously a-ok and unquestionably right - again under the assumption that immigrants are ripping off social welfare to a large enough extent to justify the expenditure of 20m on this machine & the amount of time, resources etc. needed to maintain this system.

Running this item a week before the budget ties nicely into gvt narratives given welfare and public sector are both going to be cut.
 

vlad dimpaler

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Four letters - first letter c

Why would clerical workers in a private company do work that they are not being paid for?
Cheeses! Oh and CPSU that's another one. I saw CEAL defending some f@&k wits driving a bomb up north on an other board. Small wonder he'd be defending a bunch of feckless public sector parasites here as well.
 

bormotello

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We only have a right to expect them to do 85% of their contracted work because we only pay them 85% of their contracted pay.
They didn't want to do it on full pay...
 

Skypeme

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It depends on their contract of employment. A doctor employed by a private clinic will not sweep the floor if asked.
Come off it, Cael, I would have expected a far more relevant analogy from you than that attempt.

The grade involved I understand are Clerical Officers or Assistants and the tasks and jobs assigned to that grade in the CS are myrid, none of them are being asked to sweep the floor, although one might say they are sweeping the floor with the rest us.
 

Skypeme

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Ah now, I'm a civil servant, buts thats disgrace. If the machine works,use it. I despise this garda/IT mentality.. you use whatever tools are provided.
Thats a very good point, probably beyond the Gardai to resolve the issue at any rate.

If I recall the GRA's "Waiting-in-the-Long-Grass" Stone wanted an additional allowance, to add to the 78-or-so they already have, for using the Pulse system.

The Unholy Trinity strikes again!

But back to the CPSU sticky (or is it inky) fingers, money would solve this one - always has in the past!
 

blarney

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As a civil servant I find it appalling that these guys are trying to sqeeze more out of the public purse at this time. The legal problem is a red herring. Fingerprints are taken in ORAC by clerical officers. Furthermore, anyone who is so appointed under any of the immigration acts by the minister as an immigration officer is entitled to take biometric details and fingerprints. This issue was started by two rogue individuals in Burgh Quay amidst disquiet amongst most staff there who didn't really want to cause trouble (who mostly still remain indifferent to its use). However this matter has been taken on by CPSU head office as a 'cause' and the staff there are being bullied into supporting the stance. It's an absolute disgrace.
 

truthisfree

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Can anyone explain how on earth a fingerprint and palm scanner costs 20 Million?
 

EvotingMachine0197

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Are the staff in question currently taking prints manually ?
Were they taking prints manually in 2006 prior to the machine being purchased ?
 

blarney

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Skypeme

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As a civil servant I find it appalling that these guys are trying to sqeeze more out of the public purse at this time. The legal problem is a red herring. Fingerprints are taken in ORAC by clerical officers. Furthermore, anyone who is so appointed under any of the immigration acts by the minister as an immigration officer is entitled to take biometric details and fingerprints. This issue was started by two rogue individuals in Burgh Quay amidst disquiet amongst most staff there who didn't really want to cause trouble (who mostly still remain indifferent to its use). However this matter has been taken on by CPSU head office as a 'cause' and the staff there are being bullied into supporting the stance. It's an absolute disgrace.
Thank you, adds to our knowledge on this matter. Does sound familiar though, having been employed in the CS for many years the whingers are usually wasters OR angling for a position in the union - you know the thing, aspirant Branch Sec or such.

Lets hope the publicity on this one shuts them up - but don't hold your breath!
 

blarney

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It's people like these and the sick-day merchants who give most civil servants a bad name. They should genuinely bring in a manpower auditor for each department to weed out these wasters who are strangling the life out transforming the civil service. I could give them a list of about 50 from my fairly short career.
 

Skypeme

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About the same way they can spend millions on a new immigration computer system but then quietly sweep it under the carpet (like the Department of Justice's answer to P-PARS) when it was an unholy mess.

"Work has now commenced on the design of the system which will take up to 15 months to complete" March 2007. Ha!

Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service Comprehensive new IT system for the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service
Yes its a disgrace the way these systems seem to take ages to introduce.

Having made that point I can assume you support the introduction of a system that is actually ready for use, or was your point intended to mean something else?
 


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