Creationism is all around us.

nozzferrahhtoo

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So while the DUP up North have been hammering away with their Creationist Ideals and our own Science Minister has been launching Anti Evolution Texts using his elected office title to do so.... a group in Scotland have now joined the fray.

Headed by "a Northern Irish professor of genetics" the group has already been asked to speak in schools in Scotland.

Their geneticist leader believes Adam was “a real historical person” among other claims such as "the universe is created in six days, God makes Eve out of Adam’s rib, and Noah saves the Earth by building an ark."

Even more incredibly however, they claim that the theory of intelligent design is not religious in nature... a true leap of faith if ever I heard one.
 


owedtojoy

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Clearly, these groups have been emboldened by the success (or apparent success) of anti-science movements like the Tea Party. By using buzzwords like "sound science", they seek to infiltrate thsie religion and ideology into science and make some aspects of scientific enquiry "politically incorrect".

WE should all monitor and oppose these interlopers where we can.
 

edifice.

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For someone who claims that all they wish for is that God should not be part of the daily narrative due to the absence of 'evidence' you certainly contribute your fair share to denying your wish. If you don't wish to speak of God, don't.
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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For someone who claims that all they wish for is that God should not be part of the daily narrative due to the absence of 'evidence' you certainly contribute your fair share to denying your wish. If you don't wish to speak of God, don't.
Again as I said… I would agree with you if I had the choice.

However as I also said in the thread to which you allude, I AM very interested in science, education, politics and so on, and “god” is brought TO ME each and every day in those areas of discourse, hence I do NOT have the choice to simply not speak about it.
 

Sync

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Again as I said… I would agree with you if I had the choice.

However as I also said in the thread to which you allude, I AM very interested in science, education, politics and so on, and “god” is brought TO ME each and every day in those areas of discourse, hence I do NOT have the choice to simply not speak about it.
Yeah the Scottish Herald must be smacking you in the face every day. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with having an agenda, as you clearly do, but pretending you don't just damages your points.
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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Yeah the Scottish Herald must be smacking you in the face every day. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with having an agenda, as you clearly do, but pretending you don't just damages your points.
I see. The error in your opinion lies in the fact that you made a wholesale assumption about where I came across this story myself.

You think it was the Herald I heard it in and then I came here reporting on it. You have the order of events exactly backwards. I have heard about it from other sources where in fact it did “smack me in the face” as you put it and then while seeking a link to make a post here, the one above was the first one I found to provide you with.

Assumption is the mother of most errors, but I am happy to clear up your error in this particular case. My “agendas” are not what you picture them to be and are in fact pretty much as I have espoused them.

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, as you clearly do, but basing them on false assumption just damages your points.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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I don't believe in Creationism. I simply don't listen to them. Its that easy. There used to be these concepts called freedom of expression, freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
 

eoghanacht

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Ah, you've only gone and made the baby jesus cry... forshame!
 

edifice.

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Again as I said… I would agree with you if I had the choice.

However as I also said in the thread to which you allude, I AM very interested in science, education, politics and so on, and “god” is brought TO ME each and every day in those areas of discourse, hence I do NOT have the choice to simply not speak about it.
You mean you had no choice in joining your atheist group? What else would an atheist group speak of?
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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I don't believe in Creationism. I simply don't listen to them. Its that easy. There used to be these concepts called freedom of expression, freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
If only it were so easy, but alas history proves this wrong.

In fact what we have seen in America for example is that simply not listening to them is not enough, as they then proceed unhindered to cause no end of damage.

I have seen what this “debate” has done in the US. It has been defeated time and time again in school after school and in high level court cases. It loses every time, yet it does not do so without leaving casualties in it’s wake. School boards have been bankrupted, jobs have been lost, reputations destroyed.

And in the last months I see the UK and Ireland going down the same route and I see little to assure me that the same results will not be achieved but at the same costs to both careers, finances and education of children.

Not to mention that it also damages the goals of the religious amongst us, not just the scientists, as people build straw men of the religious based on people like these. Thinking Adam was real and the world is 6000 years old becomes synonymous with being religious and the religious, who may actually have something worthy of listening to, spend half their time distancing themselves and defending themselves from such opinions that they themselves do not actually hold.
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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You mean you had no choice in joining your atheist group? What else would an atheist group speak of?
Not exactly what I am saying, but not far off either.

I would rather not have HAD to join such a group to be honest. As I said before I would love to wake up tomorrow and never discuss religion, engage with it or bother with it ever again. I simply am not let. I am forced into conflict with it daily in all the realms of discourse that I actually AM interested in.

That I would feel compelled therefore to join a group which can aid me in such a conflict should be no surprise and I am not sure why you even bring it up as if you are surprised by this.
 

Sync

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There's no error. You're starting up a thread whining about creationism then saying "Gosh some people are talking about creationism" You don't like it and you don't like the people who practice it. Fine. Just say that.

But don't complain that people have the temerity to believe something different to you, no matter how loony. Creationism is gaining no traction whatsoever in Europe. You have to really look for the articles you're talking about to actually think it is.

Hint: If you stop reading Atheist.ie, you'll stop reading so much about creationism.
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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There's no error. You're starting up a thread whining about creationism then saying "Gosh some people are talking about creationism" You don't like it and you don't like the people who practice it. Fine. Just say that.
Again no. As I said I have seen the damage this has caused in other countries and I find it important to make people aware of the potential for such damage here. I am interested in science and in how we educate our young, and here we have an organised, well financed and well qualified group who are intending to attach both of those things at fundamental levels.

Why you feel I should be unmoved to post about such a threat, I simply have no idea.

Also please keep your words out of my mouth, as I clearly have enough of my own. At NO POINT did I indicate I have anything personally against the people who practise it. Never have, likely never will. I am sure they are all lovely people in fact, and I will maintain such an opinion until shown otherwise. So keep words like “You don't like it and you don't like the people who practice it. “ out of my mouth. If you have a problem with me, thats fine with me. If you have to tell lies about me and my opinions to espouse your problem with me however, this is not.

Creationism is gaining no traction whatsoever.
I wish I could live in the fantasy world you live in, it sounds nice there, but alas it is not so. Here we have, as I said, an organised, well financed well qualified group being established, while in the North of Ireland elected officials are attempting to get it in schools and museums, and on our own shores our elected Minister of Science is using his title of office to endorse books on the subject.

How this is "gaining no traction whatsoever" I do not know.

Hint: If you stop reading Atheist.ie, you'll stop reading so much about creationism.
Again an opinion based on the false assumption that I hear these things from the sources you list.
 

Foghorn

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So while the DUP up North have been hammering away with their Creationist Ideals and our own Science Minister has been launching Anti Evolution Texts using his elected office title to do so.... a group in Scotland have now joined the fray.

Headed by "a Northern Irish professor of genetics" the group has already been asked to speak in schools in Scotland.

Their geneticist leader believes Adam was “a real historical person” among other claims such as "the universe is created in six days, God makes Eve out of Adam’s rib, and Noah saves the Earth by building an ark."

Even more incredibly however, they claim that the theory of intelligent design is not religious in nature... a true leap of faith if ever I heard one.
Change the channel Marge. :roll:
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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If only it were so easy, but alas history proves this wrong.

In fact what we have seen in America for example is that simply not listening to them is not enough, as they then proceed unhindered to cause no end of damage.

I have seen what this “debate” has done in the US. It has been defeated time and time again in school after school and in high level court cases. It loses every time, yet it does not do so without leaving casualties in it’s wake. School boards have been bankrupted, jobs have been lost, reputations destroyed.

And in the last months I see the UK and Ireland going down the same route and I see little to assure me that the same results will not be achieved but at the same costs to both careers, finances and education of children.

Not to mention that it also damages the goals of the religious amongst us, not just the scientists, as people build straw men of the religious based on people like these. Thinking Adam was real and the world is 6000 years old becomes synonymous with being religious and the religious, who may actually have something worthy of listening to, spend half their time distancing themselves and defending themselves from such opinions that they themselves do not actually hold.
That's bull. Where is creationism taught as the only show in town as it was over 100 years ago? Even back then or indeed in the 18th century did it stop the Industrial Revolution?

The Old and New Testament has allegories in it that can be used comparitively in teaching the history of civilisation from the Sumerians in where Iraq is now
 

nozzferrahhtoo

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That's bull.
I would love to believe you are right and I am wrong, I really would.

Yet I followed very closely what happened in the states, and in fact still is happening, and the parallels here are identical. I therefore see no other option but to fear the same thing is occurring here.

If it is "bull" as you put it, however ineloquently, then you will not find a happier person to admit they were wrong than this one typing this post.
 

logic

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Whoever this 'Proffesor' is he should be stripped of his title and exiled from the scientific community. Its scary to think that his opinions reach the minds of University students. I'm all for religious tolerance but creationism is as pathetic and dangerous as the minds that preach it
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Ignore them and hopefully they will go away. Here's why:
Another central tenet of the fundamnetalist christian right is a "pro-life" stance.This rejects,inter alia ,sterm cell research. The Regans were vehemently "pro life" and anti stem celll research until it dawned on them that a probably hereditary family form of demetia will probably be resolved by this very research -they changed their minds when self interest and scientific research see this link

Ron Reagan defends stem cell research - Dateline NBC - msnbc.com

Don't mind them it is all a stance to be seen to be more right wing than the next guy they give it up when it suits them

If they found oil in a 5m year old rock formation they would soon square the circle.....
 

Vega1447

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I agree with nozzferrahhtoo

Interesting post nozzferrahhtoo.

You are being attacked for the post, not clear why.

Creationism is anti-scientific and *wrong*.

Not just possibly wrong but verifiably and certainly wrong.

Some creationists go to considerable trouble to infiltrate their absurd beliefs into mainstream schooling - nozzferrahhtoo may be anxious about this, I certainly am.

Unfortunately humans seem to be hard-wired for credulity.

It may have been a survival trait 10's of thousands of years ago to believe the chieftain/shaman's "teaching" - nowadays it puts humanity at the risk of being led by idiots like Palin..

For an example of the credulity of many people we need only look at the transparently fraudulent origins of Mormonism & Scientology - both with (?) millions of adherents.
 

Jezza

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"A Northen Irish Professor of genetics" :D

Your nut-filter just goes up on auto-pilot when you see that bit.
 


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