Criminal Court Ruling: Sex without a condom amounts to rape

Destiny's Soldier

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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-for-rape-after-refusing-to-put-on-a-condom-during-sex-36697498.html


A 31-year-old man has been jailed for three and a half years for the rape of a woman he was dating.

The Central Criminal Court heard the woman had told the man she was not interested in sex without a condom but that he had penetrated her. The man stopped after she told him that he was raping her.

So a sheath of Latex 0.08mm thick is enough to protect you from having a criminal record, career destroyed, and be on the sex offenders register.

Note Julian Assange was retrospectively prosecuted in Sweden for rape by having consensual sex without a condom.
Prior knowledge of sex without a condom means consent withdrawn. It equals rape in this country.

Where is this going to lead?

Mr Justice Butler noted the woman in her victim impact statement indicated she was in fear of the accused and afraid of him coming at her with a knife or sledgehammer. He said there had been no suggestion of any such violence or any violence at all other than the rape.

Which implies that rape is somewhat elastic in definition. It depends on how the woman feels afterwards. If she "feels violated" emotionally - it's rape and the once upstanding gentleman is going to prison.

Many women wouldn't feel violated in the above situation. They would just say stop and that would be that. They would go on to have a normal relationship with the male partner when boundaries are understood. And not having a man end up in prison.

Edit:
Later on in the discussion some posters do not like that I broke it down as follows:
Sex without using prior agreed contraceptive device amounts to rape.
 
Last edited:


Researchwill

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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-for-rape-after-refusing-to-put-on-a-condom-during-sex-36697498.html





So a sheath of Latex 0.08mm thick is enough to protect you from having a criminal record, career destroyed, and be on the sex offenders register.

Note Julian Assange was retrospectively prosecuted in Sweden for rape by having consensual sex without a condom.
Prior knowledge of sex without a condom means consent withdrawn. It equals rape in this country.

Where is this going to lead?




Which implies that rape is somewhat elastic in definition. It depends on how the woman feels afterwards. If she "feels violated" emotionally - it's rape and the once upstanding gentleman is going to prison.

Many women wouldn't feel violated in the above situation. They would just say stop and that would be that. They would go on to have a normal relationship with the male partner when boundaries are understood. And not having a man end up in prison.
“was convicted by a Central Criminal Court jury”

I wonder what the Court of Appeal will make of it.
 

paulp

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He didn't have consent to have sex without a condom and he knew he didn't.

Where's the confusion?
 

Sync

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So both parties accepted she said no and then he penetrated her. So...rape. By any legislation in the world that’s rape.

Well maybe not Afghanistan. What’s your problem statement? What’s your proposed solution exactly? That unwanted and clearly unwelcome penetration is deemed legal?
 

statsman

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He didn't have consent to have sex without a condom and he knew he didn't.

Where's the confusion?
It really is that simple. Just respect your partner's wishes.
 

MsDaisyC

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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-for-rape-after-refusing-to-put-on-a-condom-during-sex-36697498.html

So a sheath of Latex 0.08mm thick is enough to protect you from having a criminal record, career destroyed, and be on the sex offenders register.

Note Julian Assange was retrospectively prosecuted in Sweden for rape by having consensual sex without a condom.
Prior knowledge of sex without a condom means consent withdrawn. It equals rape in this country.

Where is this going to lead?

Which implies that rape is somewhat elastic in definition. It depends on how the woman feels afterwards. If she "feels violated" emotionally - it's rape and the once upstanding gentleman is going to prison.

Many women wouldn't feel violated in the above situation. They would just say stop and that would be that. They would go on to have a normal relationship with the male partner when boundaries are understood. And not having a man end up in prison.
You left out a pretty important quote regarding the man's activity.- "there had been some consensual sexual activity between the parties and the only clear rule was no unprotected sex. He said this was ignored on this one occasion and that amounted to rape."

She said no. He ignored that and raped her.
 

statsman

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Many women wouldn't feel violated in the above situation. They would just say stop and that would be that. They would go on to have a normal relationship with the male partner when boundaries are understood. And not having a man end up in prison.

The thing that some men are clearly failing to understand is that having to accept that a woman is not a chattel, a possession, someone who exists to fulfil a range of male needs without question is not some kind of oppression of men. This extreme sexism needs to be challenged whenever it rears its ugly head.

Women are equal partners, and men don't get to decide how women should react to situations like this. If a woman says 'no', then it's not up to her to say 'stop' when the man fails to accept that no, it's up to the man to accept the woman's refusal, end of.

So, yes, the guy in this case was rightly found guilty of rape, and men who think he should not have been found guilty stand indited of being idiotic sexist morons. And yes, that's you I'm talking to, OP.
 

The_SR

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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-for-rape-after-refusing-to-put-on-a-condom-during-sex-36697498.html





So a sheath of Latex 0.08mm thick is enough to protect you from having a criminal record, career destroyed, and be on the sex offenders register.

Note Julian Assange was retrospectively prosecuted in Sweden for rape by having consensual sex without a condom.
Prior knowledge of sex without a condom means consent withdrawn. It equals rape in this country.

Where is this going to lead?




Which implies that rape is somewhat elastic in definition. It depends on how the woman feels afterwards. If she "feels violated" emotionally - it's rape and the once upstanding gentleman is going to prison.

Many women wouldn't feel violated in the above situation. They would just say stop and that would be that. They would go on to have a normal relationship with the male partner when boundaries are understood. And not having a man end up in prison.
That's an amazing interpretation of the verdict. Literally incredible.
 

MsDaisyC

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3.5 years in jail seems like a very harsh punishment.
She said no. He raped her. Would it seem harsh if the woman he raped was a friend or relative of yours?
 

Destiny's Soldier

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So both parties accepted she said no and then he penetrated her. So...rape. By any legislation in the world that’s rape.

Well maybe not Afghanistan. What’s your problem statement? What’s your proposed solution exactly? That unwanted and clearly unwelcome penetration is deemed legal?

The problem exactly is the attitude of the woman afterwards. She imagines he's now going to come after her with a knife -as if it had anything to do with it.

This is fantasy.

If she said she felt fine about it but that consent was withdrawn by not using a condom would the law have made such a big deal about it? If the lady can embellish the emotional impact it increases the case against the man.

Does 0.08mm of Latex make such a big difference to the imagination of a female in an otherwise consensual sexual encounter ?
Using a condom can be difficult.

I look forward to the case in court where a man withdraws consent (in advance ) when the woman says she's on the pill but not, and it results in pregnancy. Oh wait that's his problem and he's up for maintenance for the rest of his life.

Penetration is fine with 0.08mm of Latex but not fine without.
This is more about the risk of catching a sexually transmitted disease or pregnancy than rape.

Perhaps the classification of this crime should be psychological trauma rather than Rape.
 

Toland

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What do you think the term for rape should be?
It depends on the circumstances and the exact events leading up to and during the rape, of course.

Not having been in court to hear the case, I wouldn't dream of commenting on whether the sentence was excessive in this particular case.

Nor would I if someone had commented that the sentence appeared to be particularly light.
 

statsman

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It depends on the circumstances and the exact events leading up to and during the rape, of course.

Not having been in court to hear the case, I wouldn't dream of commenting on whether the sentence was excessive in this particular case.

Nor would I if someone had commented that the sentence appeared to be particularly light.
I agree, broadly, however I would support a minimum mandatory 7 years for rape, as a baseline, regardless of mitigating circumstances. And a maximum of life.
 

Dame_Enda

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Look she said he had to wear a condom but he didn't so there wasn't consent. I agree with the ruling.

In other cases I have serious concerns of judicial overreach in conflating honest mistakes with sexual assault in other countries but not so in Ireland.
 

drjimryan2

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when one reads this story.....the sanction seems very severe....

I am aware of a case of child abusers with political connections who raped a child over a prolonged period and they got suspended sentences......

Consistency seems to be the issue.....
 

Destiny's Soldier

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Sort of confirms my idiotic moron prognosis.
Name one film or TV programme in the history of movies where the lead characters are in a love scene and the man stops, gets up from the embrace goes to the bedside locker or trouser pocket in search of a condom.

It doesn't happen for all the obvious reasons. Continuity, spontaneity etc.

I guess I must be an idiotic moron.
 

Toland

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I agree, broadly, however I would support a minimum mandatory 7 years for rape, ...
I could hardly disagree more strongly. As currently defined all rape means is penetrative sex without the consent of the person being penetrated, with the term "consent" being (rightly) extremely narrowly defined.

Could you imagine the reaction if all deliberate acts of killing, no matter what the background consequences, were defined as murder and subject to a long minimum sentence? The wigs would be on the green! And rightly so. And the main group of people throwing the wigs about would be those concerned to defend women in fear of domestic violence.
 


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