criminalising birth choices-protest tomorrow

Cincinnatus

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
503
Website
www.supernatural.ie
There is to be a protest outside the Hungarian embassy (Fitzwilliam place) tomorrow 13th November Saturday from 1-3 pm.

This is because Dr Agnes Gereb an internationally recognised Gynaecologist and home birth expert has been jailed in a maximum security prison in Budapest for standing up for women's rights to choose how and where they give birth.

There is currently a nurses and midwives bill 2010 being passed into legislation here that will result in the same outcomes for Irish women and midwives.

Why does Mary harney want to make criminals out of midwives who believe in home birth? Law will force most to have babies in hospital, so

Hungary: Midwife Agnes Gereb taken to court for championing home births | World news | The Guardian
 
Last edited:


Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,568
The links state that certain women are high risk so the midwives won't be insured. Proper order.
 

Cincinnatus

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
503
Website
www.supernatural.ie
The links state that certain women are high risk so the midwives won't be insured. Proper order.
The point you miss is that "high risk" has been determined by the narrow minded medical establishment. Their definition of "high risk" is not evidence or experienced based.
Talk to any midwife (the people who actually help women birth)
 

DeputyEdo

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
3,449
So..."woman goes to jail for breaking the law" would also be a good title heading for this.

cincinnatus...can I ask you....if someone/group want to change a law, you'd be ok with them breaking that law as they don't agree with it?
 

Cincinnatus

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
503
Website
www.supernatural.ie
This particular law criminalises something that has been perfectly legal since, well, since laws began! Some laws are a violation of human rights, are they not?
 

jam_mac_jam

Member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
70
The point you miss is that "high risk" has been determined by the narrow minded medical establishment. Their definition of "high risk" is not evidence or experienced based.
Talk to any midwife (the people who actually help women birth)
Narrow minded? What is their analysis of high risk based on?
 

jam_mac_jam

Member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
70
This particular law criminalises something that has been perfectly legal since, well, since laws began! Some laws are a violation of human rights, are they not?
yes and women have been dying in childbirth, and still do since laws began, but lets risk their lives for some hippy ************************************************ about home births being better than hospital for people at higher risks.
 

DeputyEdo

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
3,449
This particular law criminalises something that has been perfectly legal since, well, since laws began! Some laws are a violation of human rights, are they not?
Some laws are a violation, I agree.

And just because something has been legal since laws begin, means nothing.
Smoking weed was legal until they decided it wasn't, being a member of the Nazi party in German was legal until they decided it wasn't, having sex with kids was legal until they decided it wasn't etc etc
 

Tin Foil Hat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,883
Home births are flowery-skirt wearing, hippy bullcrap, that add unnecessary risk the lives of both mother and child.
It's right that they should be banned.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,478
Home births are flowery-skirt wearing, hippy bullcrap, that add unnecessary risk the lives of both mother and child.
It's right that they should be banned.
Not to mention it leaves a nasty stain on the carpet! I have helped mammys deliver several babies at home. Usually uncomplicated but if there are sudden complications then the place for mother and baby is maternity hospital.
 

spidermom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
9,148
Can you post up the bit of the bill that says that there will be no more home births allowed??..
If women who have required intervention in past labours including a c.section, they'd be NUTS to opt for a home birth and no professional midwife should take such a mam on!


I note that the IMNO have no concerns(???)..INMO Live-Nurses and Midwives Bill 2010

"It is vital that the new legislation fully addresses such pivotal issues as:

Ensuring competency by each individual nurse/midwife;
Clearly stipulates the responsibility of health employers to make sure nurses/midwives access continuing professional development opportunities to ensure highest standards of practice;
Ensure that the public and patients are assured that nurses and midwives act appropriately at all times; and,
Ensures the necessary infrastructure for nurse/midwife undergraduate and post graduate education is in place and maintained.".....
 

Tin Foil Hat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,883
Not to mention it leaves a nasty stain on the carpet!
Ewww!


I have helped mammys deliver several babies at home. Usually uncomplicated but if there are sudden complications then the place for mother and baby is maternity hospital.
If my wife insisted on a home birth (not that it would have even crossed her mind), I would now have a dead child and, quite possibly, a dead wife.
I strongly doubt there are too many people who could type my last sentence replacing the word 'home' with 'hospital'.
 

uriah

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
3,607
Women can give birth wherever they choose. Nobody can force them to go to a hospital when they go into labour.

They just cannot insist that medical personnel be with them when they give birth.

In a hospital setting a couple of midwives can care for several women in labour.
Why should one midwife be obliged to remove him/herself to a private home where s/he can look after just one mother for what may be a considerable period of time?

These women can make choices for themselves and their babies. They cannot expect medical personnel to fit in with their plans.
 

cropbeye

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
921
A lot

A lot of hysteria here from people either in or taken in

by the Health industry.

Sure people are only fools who cant go outside the recommendations of the Medical

establishment.

About time the health experts were not treated like Gods.

Since the Church has been kicked to touch it is the likes of the Health industry that are the new elites who cannot be criticised.
 

Cael

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
There is to be a protest outside the Hungarian embassy (Fitzwilliam place) tomorrow 13th November Saturday from 1-3 pm.

This is because Dr Agnes Gereb an internationally recognised Gynaecologist and home birth expert has been jailed in a maximum security prison in Budapest for standing up for women's rights to choose how and where they give birth.
More capitalist tyranny. Babies have been born at home for tens of thousands of years - but there's no profit in that for the capitalists, so it has to be stamped out.
 

uriah

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
3,607
A lot of hysteria here from people either in or taken in

by the Health industry.

Sure people are only fools who cant go outside the recommendations of the Medical

establishment.

About time the health experts were not treated like Gods.

Since the Church has been kicked to touch it is the likes of the Health industry that are the new elites who cannot be criticised.
More capitalist tyranny. Babies have been born at home for tens of thousands of years - but there's no profit in that for the capitalists, so it has to be stamped out.
As I already said, nobody is forcing any woman to give birth in a hospital. They can give birth in a field if they so choose.

They just cannot (and should not be allowed to) insist that a midwife be with them in the house/field or in any other location of their choice.

Who would be blamed /sued if anything went wrong?
Things do go wrong during birth and the baby is the one most likely to suffer the consequences.

This is a campaign based on selfishness.
 

Malboury

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
368
More capitalist tyranny. Babies have been born at home for tens of thousands of years - but there's no profit in that for the capitalists, so it has to be stamped out.
Since the advent of modern medicine and hospital births the mortality rates associated with giving birth, both for mother and child, have plummeted. Not absolutely everything is driven by capitalists. Most doctors really care about people, and see the idea of women and children dying at home as being an abhorrent waste of life. Which it is. I can fully understand their reticence to allow identified high risk births happen outside of a medial setting.

And speaking of communism/capitalism, wasn't Stalin commended for enabling the first generation of Russian women ever to give birth in hospitals? How can giving birth in hospitals be good under socialism but bad under capitalism?
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,568
How can giving birth in hospitals be good under socialism but bad under capitalism?
Don't ask Cael hard questions like that coz his head will explode.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top