Criticism of Islam (Original Thread)

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Drogheda445

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There seems to be a perception among people in the Western World that criticism of Islam is directly linked to racism. While it does apply to some people, especially those of the more right-wing anti-immigrant variety, it doesn't apply to all. I am a secularist and an agnostic and I would consider myself to be a liberal in many respects. I am also open to immigration because I believe that it is healthy for the country (so long as immigrants make an effort to integrate and not to segregate themselves). But I dislike Islam and what it stands for. To me it comes across as misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Semitic, very rigid, militant, highly sensitive to criticism, and in some ways quite supremacist. And yes, I am aware that not all Muslims are rigid fundamentalists, and that some are very rational and open individuals, but radical Islam, perhaps the world's most backward social ideology, is vocal throughout the world and now in Europe as well, and it does spring from the fact that many of Islam's teachings appear to be misogynistic, homophobic etc. Christianity also has its extreme side to it (although admittedly less militant than radical Islam) and criticism of it is rarely branded as racist or "Christophobic". I find this to be quite hypocritical, particularly on the part of atheists and agnostics, who rightly criticise Christian fundamentalism and extreme but are often uneasy or silent when it comes to criticism of Islamic fundamentalism.

I deplore racism of any kind and it to me is a symptom of ignorance and tribal hatred, and should be condemned openly. Racism itself is completely phoney because it is scientifically accepted that there is only one human race, and 19th century pseudoscientific racialism is complete rubbish. But religious extremism is something which is openly visible to us and does threaten the rights and safety of others if its isn't kept in check. Islam is not a race, it is a religion. This is evident by the fact that Islam is practised by many in the Balkans, by Africans, South-East Asians and even has a number of western converts. Anyone can become a Muslim if they wish to do so.

I think the idea that Muslims are out to take over Europe is phoney, and I think although we can often be complacent in the West, our democracy is strong and is unlikely to fall to the ramblings of religious extremists. But criticism of the religion of Islam, not its adherents, but the religion itself, cannot be classed as racism simply because the majority of European Muslims have their roots outside of Europe. This needs to be highlighted. I am against racism and I am totally opposed to hatred of Muslims, but I am critical of the religion of Islam and I imagine many critics of it are also like this. So why is virtually all criticism of Islam (the religion) considered to be prejudicial and hate-mongering whilst criticism of other religions, particularly Christianity, is not?
 
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Happytolearn

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It is perhaps because the vast majority of its believers are not white. White people openly criticising non whites harks back to a time when it was based on the colour of their skin. I agree with much of what you said. Racism makes no sense to me - I reserve the right to regard religon (and comment on it) in whichever way I perceive it.
 

theObserver@hotmail.com

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Europe is slowly moving away from it's post-colonial guilt which refuses to criticize any non-white European culture. Some 'progressive' people are just behind the curve.
 

Happytolearn

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Europe is slowly moving away from it's post-colonial guilt which refuses to criticize any non-white European culture. Some 'progressive' people are just behind the curve.
Colour blind criticism - now that's progress!
 

Mercurial

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The loudest voices in debates about Islam tend to be racist. It often drowns out reasonable criticism as a result.
 

Telemachus

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Islam is not associated with White Europeans, thats why. There is no such thing as Christophobia outside the West(although if the people of the world were to apply consistent liberal standards to everything it would exist). Islamophobia exists only in the minds of european secular Liberals, the Han Chinese for instance dont bat an eyelid at the latest crackdown on the Hui or Uighers or handwring about violating the rights of some hook-handed bearded freak for instance.

I am not so much interested in the we are all one human race talk and what you mean by the meaningless epithet "racism" :lol: that would need a separate thread in itself, but I am interested in what you mean by saying "I am also open to immigration because I believe that it is healthy for the country (so long as immigrants make an effort to integrate and not to segregate themselves)." Basically you seem to be stating that serious muslims stop being serious muslims, stop condemning apostates etc. Why do you think immigration is "healthy" for a country? Do you think there should be a discriminatory cap on immigration on Muslims only?
 

Telemachus

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The loudest voices in debates about Islam tend to be racist. It often drowns out reasonable criticism as a result.
Can you name someone you consider reasonable?
 

Kevin Doyle

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mhagain

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Not everybody in the west who criticises Islam is a racist. But every racist in the west invariably criticises Islam. In a lot of cases on this site in particular (Alara, etc) the person doing the criticism actually does turn out to be a racist, and in many other cases the criticism extends from just being a criticism of the religion to also including society, culture, etc of Islamic countries, which is enough to begin asking questions as to the criticisers motivation.

It's interesting to compare with the views present on many Zionist websites (and expounded by many pro-Israel posters here). According to those, if you criticise Israel or Judaism in any way, shape or form, you are by definition an anti-Semite. So if those people are to make a consistent argument, then also according to them the same principle should apply to criticism of Islam. Yet it doesn't seem to. Odd, don't you think?
 

The Field Marshal

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The above picture posted by Kevin Doyle:roll:is the type of official appeasement that servants of the quisling Irish government excell at.

It ignores the murderous violence mandated upon normal followers of Islam to bestow on transgressors both within and outside of that religion.

Stoning to death and amputations being the norm.

 
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[video=youtube;6YA5UdVhhsI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YA5UdVhhsI[/video]
 

Asparagus

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One criticism might be that It's a belief system based around an imaginary deity?

Like the rest of them.
 

The Field Marshal

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Ayaan Hirsi Ali, for example.
She is under constant death threats from her Islamic co religionists.

Considering the enormous numbers of followers of this violent religion of Islam that have entered Ireland in the past two decades do you think Ireland is safe any more?

These followers are generally breeding large families and inculcating them with the doctrines of this violent and cruel belief system.
 

Drogheda445

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The loudest voices in debates about Islam tend to be racist. It often drowns out reasonable criticism as a result.
But that can't be a reason brand all criticism of it as Islamophobia or racism. There are numerous people in the West who find this religion to be socially opposed to many secular and liberal values in the Western world and who are considered racist and prejudicial.

There have been numerous debates started on the behaviour of violent Muslims in parts of Europe, often by fairly balanced posters but which more often than not get called Islamophobic. It is important we distinguish criticism from racism when discussing Islam.
 

The Field Marshal

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