Criticism of Islam (Second Thread)

blinding

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They integrate very quickly. Tommy Robinson for example, who is half Irish.
But for those who follow Islam its a very different story. They have no intention of integrating into a society whose values they reject. Its more of a slow but steady colonisation.
Would their religion basically tell them " Not to Integrate “... “ We are here to take over "
 


Golah veNekhar

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They integrate very quickly. Tommy Robinson for example, who is half Irish.
But for those who follow Islam its a very different story. They have no intention of integrating into a society whose values they reject. Its more of a slow but steady colonisation.
Yes and no. The Hiberno-English come in a lot of shapes and sizes, a fair few of them are more, much more, classically Irish so to speak than your average person you find over here while than others are "More English than the English" themselves such as Ann Marie Waters and Tommy Robinson, and of course you have a spectrum inbetween those two poles. Actually come to think about it there is actually something very Southern Irish about Ann Marie Waters and Tommy Robinson's "Islamophobia"; Religious Piety, clannish families and strong communal ties nurturing things both negative and positive which Muslims have would be I think representative of the "Old Ireland" which would be seen as a negative pole compared to the positive one of British "Progress, Freedom, blah, blah, blah, blah....". I would also say that there is something very Ulster Protestant (which are my roots) about the Islamophilia I developed while I was living in England.
 

Golah veNekhar

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3. No. If a Muslim is a follower of Mohammad above Jesus then they are not closer. It may be that they are not far from each other. That would depend on everything other than the thing that makes them different.
Well Muslims revere Jesus as a very important Prophet though they take a very similar approach as yourself to the Gospels even if they do not quite go so far. Do you think following Jesus entails not also following Moses, Amos, Ezekiel, etc? People who have never in their life taken a Spiritual fist to their fleshy desires for sexual gratification, food, sleep, talking mindlessly, etc can hardly be called followers of Christ.

The other thing is that I am not sure there was a historical Mohammad, "Mohammad" which means the Praised One is much more a title than a name, in fact it appears to have been an old Syriac title for Our Lord. There is a theory that Islam developed out of a Jewish Christian sect- Islam certainly does pick up a lot of the themes found in Jewish Christianity- and that Mohammad in the original Proto-Islam actually did refer to Christ. I think it is more likely that Islam grew out of a straight forward though non-Talmudic Judaism and than as it morphed into a more fully fledged Religion after the conquests took up Jewish Christian themes as it sought to put ground between itself and Rabbinic Judaism. The goal of the Arab conquests was Jerusalem so you could even call Proto-Islam Zionist which is a delightful irony.
 

blinding

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Good. Ridiculous parallel system. Time to align yourselves to British law and sign up properly to the country you're in.
About time this sort of thing was shown to be nonsense in the Courts. Its can’t be one Law for some People and another Law for Other People.
 

Golah veNekhar

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Golah veNekhar

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Good. Ridiculous parallel system. Time to align yourselves to British law and sign up properly to the country you're in.
Yet you are fine with the Beth Din, are you not? Objecting to them would be "anti-Semitic"....This is the thing Muslims see Jewish privileges in Britain and think they would like a bit of that for themselves....The below video is quite humourous but also very revealing....

 

A Voice

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Yet you are fine with the Beth Din, are you not? Objecting to them would be "anti-Semitic"....This is the thing Muslims see Jewish privileges in Britain and think they would like a bit of that for themselves....The below video is quite humourous but also very revealing....

I'm not well up on Beth Din but I remember the last time it came up I asked about the numbers. The answer prompted me to forget about them again.
So, - in principle Yes, in practice Don't care. By all means campaign for their alignment with the rest of society; I won't get in your way.
 

Golah veNekhar

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I'm not well up on Beth Din but I remember the last time it came up I asked about the numbers. The answer prompted me to forget about them again.
So, - in principle Yes, in practice Don't care. By all means campaign for their alignment with the rest of society; I won't get in your way.
Well it's hard to know just how many Jews there are in Britain, certainly there are significantlty more than the official statistics say, but yes Muslims do out number them by a good chunk. Shariah courts do not deal with criminal law- they deal personal disputes. So Muslims should allign with English mainstream society when they have disputes in falling out forever with each other and revelling in bitterness? And this is important to you why?
 

A Voice

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Well it's hard to know just how many Jews there are in Britain, certainly there are significantlty more than the official statistics say, but yes Muslims do out number them by a good chunk. Shariah courts do not deal with criminal law- they deal personal disputes. So Muslims should allign with English mainstream society when they have disputes in falling out forever with each other and revelling in bitterness? And this is important to you why?
Marriage is an extremely significant institution. This does not need spelling out. Have a good weekend.
 

Golah veNekhar

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Marriage is an extremely significant institution.
You might think that- however 42 per cent of marriages in the UK end in divorce, most of them being indigenous English, the illegitimacy rate in Britain is threw the roof, soon most births will be out of wedlock, and of course there lads can marry other lads and lassies can marry other lassies- so you think that marriage is an extremely significant institution but you would like Muslims- a good few and a good few of the actually scarey ones are by the way indigenous- to allign with the rest of English society which would mean completely rejectintg the idea that marriage is an extremely significant institution?
 

Golah veNekhar

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Islam seems lovely when its a minority but that changes when it is running the show.
Nonsene. I have been to Iran and Lebanon and never encountered in either of those places the type of Muslim aggression I have witnessed in parts of England and France.
 

BACKTOBASICS

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Yes and no. The Hiberno-English come in a lot of shapes and sizes, a fair few of them are more, much more, classically Irish so to speak than your average person you find over here while than others are "More English than the English" themselves such as Ann Marie Waters and Tommy Robinson, and of course you have a spectrum inbetween those two poles. Actually come to think about it there is actually something very Southern Irish about Ann Marie Waters and Tommy Robinson's "Islamophobia"; Religious Piety, clannish families and strong communal ties nurturing things both negative and positive which Muslims have would be I think representative of the "Old Ireland" which would be seen as a negative pole compared to the positive one of British "Progress, Freedom, blah, blah, blah, blah....". I would also say that there is something very Ulster Protestant (which are my roots) about the Islamophilia I developed while I was living in England.
British occupation, where the Catholic faith, schools and the teaching of the Irish language were forbidden, and the seizure of lands while the British ruled over Ireland would have made any native Irish afterwards working and living in the UK very wary indeed of British intentions/treatment.
I would think because of these experiences Irish people would be, and should be on guard against a similar takeover (encouraged by most of our Irish politicians) by Islamic invasion to out breed the Irish and thus gain a bloodless control over Ireland. - our politicians, led by Varadkar, Coveney and Flanagan appear to want this and are inviting all and sundry to our shores.
 

Golah veNekhar

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British occupation, where the Catholic faith, schools and the teaching of the Irish language were forbidden, and the seizure of lands while the British ruled over Ireland would have made any native Irish afterwards working and living in the UK very wary indeed of British intentions/treatment.
I would think because of these experiences Irish people would be, and should be on guard against a similar takeover (encouraged by most of our Irish politicians) by Islamic invasion to out breed the Irish and thus gain a bloodless control over Ireland. - our politicians, led by Varadkar, Coveney and Flanagan appear to want this and are inviting all and sundry to our shores.
Ann Marie Waters wants the language acts in Wales and Scotland gone. Tommy Robinson has praised the Loyalist Death Squads during the Troubles....Yes though Ann Marie Waters and Tommy Robinson are against Islam for the reasons you say, of course they are. I am very much against mass immigration and Mercurial if was still here could confirm that he regards me as an Ethno-Nationalist Fascist- but to speak about an Islamic invasions is retarded. The out breed the Irish thing- any population that votes for abortion on demand, especially in the middle of a demographic crisis, is asking to die, any population that votes for homosexualist marriage is asking to di;e. Muslims or no Muslims those would be massive problems- massive problems that you do not want to face so you find a socially acceptable whipping boy. It is effeminate.
 

recedite

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You might think that- however 42 per cent of marriages in the UK end in divorce, most of them being indigenous English, the illegitimacy rate in Britain is threw the roof, soon most births will be out of wedlock, and of course there lads can marry other lads and lassies can marry other lassies- so you think that marriage is an extremely significant institution but you would like Muslims- a good few and a good few of the actually scarey ones are by the way indigenous- to allign with the rest of English society which would mean completely rejectintg the idea that marriage is an extremely significant institution?
You are completely missing the point. The point is that this couple were "married" by an imam according to Sharia Law, and they considered that law superior to the law of the land. Because of that attitude, they saw no need to get married in a civil registration office. They completey ignored, rejected and disrespected the laws and the culture of the country they had colonised.

I8 years on, and the marriage breaks up. Marriage breakup and divorce is recognised by both civil law and sharia law, but they were only ever married in the eyes of Islam, not in the eyes of the law. Presumably they went to an Imam for their divorce, so the "wife" should have asked him at the time to grant her a fatwa/order giving her a suitable financial settlement. Which fatwa would have no effect outside of the Islamic community anyway, but there ya go. You can't have it both ways.
 

Supra

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You are completely missing the point. The point is that this couple were "married" by an imam according to Sharia Law, and they considered that law superior to the law of the land. Because of that attitude, they saw no need to get married in a civil registration office. They completey ignored, rejected and disrespected the laws and the culture of the country they had colonised.

I8 years on, and the marriage breaks up. Marriage breakup and divorce is recognised by both civil law and sharia law, but they were only ever married in the eyes of Islam, not in the eyes of the law. Presumably they went to an Imam for their divorce, so the "wife" should have asked him at the time to grant her a fatwa/order giving her a suitable financial settlement. Which fatwa would have no effect outside of the Islamic community anyway, but there ya go. You can't have it both ways.
Do the Sate not recognize Iman as an authority to marry?
Is it that the Iman or the couple didn't submit the documents?
 

recedite

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Do the Sate not recognize Iman as an authority to marry?
Is it that the Iman or the couple didn't submit the documents?
The latter.
The same applies in this country. In a traditional church wedding involving a mainstream religion, the priest/clergyman is licensed to witness and "solemnise" the civil (state) registration documents, and that normally happens at the back of the church, or in the sacristy, immediately after the vows are exchanged.

In the case of non-mainstream religion weddings, pagans, atheists etc, traditionally they could have whatever ceremony they liked, but they had to go to a registry office and get married there as well, just to make it official.
In the last few years humanists and witches (but not atheists) have been allowed to officially register with the state as "solemnisers" at weddings in Ireland, which means the necessity for a separate trip by the happy couple to the registry office is much reduced nowadays.

The point is that the solemniser, whether they are a priest, an imam or a witch, must be approved/licenced by the state and must send in the fully signed-off state registration documents after the religious wedding. Otherwise a separate trip to the registry office would be required. If neither of the above has happened, then the marriage does not exist legally.
 

BACKTOBASICS

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Most Xtians don't give a damn about the theology. They are at best cultural Xtians - baptism, wedding and death. And religious weddings are becoming rarer by the day.

Don't imagine that muslims are any different, although they may be further behind us on the curve.
Xtians? Are you ideology incapable or too lazy to use the proper word, i.e. Christians.

Are you familiar with 'most' Christians?
 


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