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Cromwell in Ireland on RTE tonight

Catalpa

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Cromwell in Ireland

Well did anyone else watch it and what did they think?

Thought the guy who played Cromwell was quite good but the accent wasn't really authentic but other than that I think he caught the man's character well enough.

Couldn't help noticing though they kept on referring to Irish Rising of 1641 as the 'Rebellion'!

The combat scenes were quite good too esp the Flags and the way they dominated the battlefield.

While we didn't learn much that was new it might be of more interest to those who have never interested themselves in it before.

Also they portray Owen Ruadh O’Neill as dying of natural causes but forgot to mention the strong possibility that enemy agents poisoned him.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/cromwellinireland/index.html
 


kittyn

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Yea I watched it and to be honest had forgotten a lot of it that I learned of in history back in school. The first thought that came to mind for me was the first generation Hitler............

Must remember to watch the second half next week.
 

lostexpectation

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seem to give equal time to irish and british atrocities, i dunno maybe they share eoghan harris belief that 1 english man is worth 10 irish, seem to use the buzzwords like civilising etc like using the words war on terror today.
 

HP

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Catalpa said:
Cromwell in Ireland

Well did anyone else watch it and what did they think?

Thought the guy who played Cromwell was quite good but the accent wasn't really authentic but other than that I think he caught the man's character well enough.

Couldn't help noticing though they kept on referring to Irish Rising of 1641 as the 'Rebellion'!

The combat scenes were quite good too esp the Flags and the way they dominated the battlefield.

While we didn't learn much that was new it might be of more interest to those who have never interested themselves in it before.

Also they portray Owen Ruadh O’Neill as dying of natural causes but forgot to mention the strong possibility that enemy agents poisoned him.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/cromwellinireland/index.html
I was a bit disappointed. There was far too much "We know Cromwell thought this..." etc without citing any source. It doesn't take much effort to add in "from his journal entry of dec 1st 1649". I hate having things presented to me already masticated like that!

The re-enactments were quite good, and I thought most of the talking heads were quite good. (Though in one case directly contradicted each other with no source cited to back up either position. Sloppy.)

Finally, being just down the road from Drogheda I was expecting to hear a lot more about the siege here. Instead we got about three sentences.

So my view overall- could have been greatly improved with just a little more attention to detail, but there was enough to get me watching the second episode next week
 

FutureTaoiseach

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It was good but will have to wait till next week for the full story of the genocide to come to like in the programme. Not a great fan of Owen Roe's English accent though. Didn't know Cromwell came from Devon. :roll:
 

Catalpa

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lostexpectation said:
seem to give equal time to irish and british atrocities, i dunno maybe they share eoghan harris belief that 1 english man is worth 10 irish, seem to use the buzzwords like civilising etc like using the words war on terror today.
Yeah that's another one that grated too! :?
 

Almanac

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Catalpa said:
Cromwell in Ireland

Well did anyone else watch it and what did they think?

Thought the guy who played Cromwell was quite good but the accent wasn't really authentic but other than that I think he caught the man's character well enough.

Couldn't help noticing though they kept on referring to Irish Rising of 1641 as the 'Rebellion'!

The combat scenes were quite good too esp the Flags and the way they dominated the battlefield.

While we didn't learn much that was new it might be of more interest to those who have never interested themselves in it before.

Also they portray Owen Ruadh O’Neill as dying of natural causes but forgot to mention the strong possibility that enemy agents poisoned him.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/cromwellinireland/index.html
It was good overall, not a patch on the Catalpa Rescue, though.

Thankfully no one mentioned Tom Reilly's insane and perverse ramblings.

It presented an accurate and even-handed picture of what transpired and the monstrous nature of Cromwell's character was clearly portrayed.
 

Sidewinder

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Did Clonmel get a mention?

Oh wait, this is RTÉ we're talking about.
 
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A weak programme that did not give sources, any detail of the slaughter in Drogheda other than superficial mentions, and tried to cover too much in one programme. The Cromwellian war in Ireland would need more than two episodes, and something better than ropey accents from actors (since when did Cromwell speak with an Irish accent?) to tell the full story of a particularly bloody time in a bloody period in Irish and British history. At least though they did try to give some context.

That said, doing history programmes for television in a form that does not confuse those who don't know the background, but gives enough sources to explain that what is said is kosher, is always difficult. But at least RTÉ this season is doing a lot of history programmes. If I had my way history would be a mandatory subject in school. History in Ireland still impacts on politics, current affairs, etc. So it is rather important that people know history and also can distinguish between myth, propaganda and evidence.
 

merle haggard

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Tribunaljunkie said:
History in Ireland still impacts on politics, current affairs, etc. So it is rather important that people know history and also can distinguish between myth, propaganda and evidence.
yes but its RTE we are talking about . Keeping the viewer informed isnt exactly one of the stations fortes so to speak . They have a hisory of sacking journalists who try and do that . Sadly a documentary on Jade Goody is likely to pay a lot more attention to detail .
 

michael1965

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Tribunaljunkie said:
A weak programme that did not give sources, any detail of the slaughter in Drogheda other than superficial mentions, and tried to cover too much in one programme. The Cromwellian war in Ireland would need more than two episodes, and something better than ropey accents from actors (since when did Cromwell speak with an Irish accent?) to tell the full story of a particularly bloody time in a bloody period in Irish and British history. At least though they did try to give some context.

That said, doing history programmes for television in a form that does not confuse those who don't know the background, but gives enough sources to explain that what is said is kosher, is always difficult. But at least RTÉ this season is doing a lot of history programmes. If I had my way history would be a mandatory subject in school. History in Ireland still impacts on politics, current affairs, etc. So it is rather important that people know history and also can distinguish between myth, propaganda and evidence.
I agree Cromwell's accent was ridiculous. But the program was excellent otherwise in my opinion. I don't see how it could have been more detailed given the time that was available. I have to say I am really looking forward to the second part of it.
 

jmcc

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Sidewinder said:
Did Clonmel get a mention?

Oh wait, this is RTÉ we're talking about.
I suppose that Waterford will be ignored as usual. At least Cromwell failed to take Waterford. Though it was more balanced. It wasn't the usual RTE/Harristotle raving looney revisionist rubbish.

Regards...jmcc
 

DAOINE

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Jul 26, 2007
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I did not see the show but I saw the report about it on RTE.ie . They showed a background in Limerick with two soldiers facing the castle and the bridge next to them. This is the modern bridge built in the 1800's. The original bridge has houses on it. Okay I know I am being a stickler but they should have checked the timeline.
 

jmcc

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merle haggard said:
if hed recruited kilkenny it would have made the drogheda massacre look like teletubbies .
Yeah but all we'd have to do would be to raise the bridge. :) But then there was no bridge when Cromwell attacked. And this time Waterford and Kilkenny were on the same side.

Regards...jmcc
 

Cael

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One statistic that struck me was that about 8,000 British settlers had died because of the harsh weather and conditions when they had been driven of the land they had been planted on. Makes you think of the hundreds of thousands of Irish who must have died of exposure when they were driven out of their homes during the plantations. Of course, we were not shown the suffering of these mere natives. Instead we were given lingering shots of buxom young Planter ladies in their night gowns in the river Bann. The Irish certainly deserved their genocide for drowning such lovely ladies.
 

CenterLeft

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Saw it - but only to please a friend of mine. She fancied the presenter, O Siochru, a while ago and needed an 'unbiased assessment.' Thought it was okay, but nothing I did not already know.
 

HP

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Tribunaljunkie said:
A weak programme that did not give sources, any detail of the slaughter in Drogheda other than superficial mentions, and tried to cover too much in one programme. The Cromwellian war in Ireland would need more than two episodes, and something better than ropey accents from actors (since when did Cromwell speak with an Irish accent?) to tell the full story of a particularly bloody time in a bloody period in Irish and British history. At least though they did try to give some context.

That said, doing history programmes for television in a form that does not confuse those who don't know the background, but gives enough sources to explain that what is said is kosher, is always difficult. But at least RTÉ this season is doing a lot of history programmes. If I had my way history would be a mandatory subject in school. History in Ireland still impacts on politics, current affairs, etc. So it is rather important that people know history and also can distinguish between myth, propaganda and evidence.
Agreed. It was an interesting illustration of the use of propaganda. All those x-rated wood cuttings of the massacre of innocent protestants in Ireland were commissioned by someone and used to bounce people into agreeing to get up an army, ostensibly to save these poor people, but in reality to effect regime change.

Ordinary people need to be suckered into agreeing to a war and a few more history lessons in the countries to either side of us wouldn't go amiss. In fact they would probably make it quite a bit harder for the war mongers to get their way.
 

Munion

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Aug 17, 2006
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17th century accents were quite different from modern accents. The New Globe theatre puts on many Shakespeare productions with the actors speaking in 17th century accents, well best guess of what they sounded like anyway.

Missed the programme myself, though it is taped.
 

bradán feasa

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It was in the mind set that while Cromwell was bad he was also quite thoughtful and you know the Irish were nearly as bad and provoked him into it. I thought it was VERY revisionist
 


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