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Cross City LUAS Delayed Again!


alonso

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Sep 17, 2006
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2,573
Yesterday's IT

"THE long overdue link-up between the two existing Luas lines has been further delayed to avoid digging up Dublin streets and crippling motorists and businesses for longer than absolutely necessary.

The €100m project to connect the Tallaght and Sandyford lines at O'Connell St, Dublin, will not start now until 2009 at the earliest , the same time as the €5bn Metro."

OK it makes sense to do both at the same time. So why not expedite the Metro instead? Again a lack of coordination, a lack of leadership and a pathetic lack of vision at the highest level. All this is happening while unnecessary motorways are being built, while reps such as cllr and the DRA discuss an outdated urban motorway through the city, and while money is diverted to political nonsense such as the Western Rail Corridor.

This link is years and years late. It;s a bloody disgrace! Will it ever be built? Will the Dublin Transportation Authority ever be set up? Can any FFer answer any of these questions? Can cllr or any Dublin reps on here give us an update or a justification for the ongoing bullsh1t we have to put up with?

and while you're here, what's going on with the Bus situation?
 

Wolverine

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Sep 11, 2006
Messages
86
Personality politics, Alonso.

"Yerra shure he's a grand man. Widya ever go away and stop being so negative".

It obscures any focus on policy and on delivery.
 

alonso

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huh? You referring to Dermo? I like him and enjoy his posts. But I know where he stands on certain issues, and I'd like to hear his response to this. I only single him out because he's the only Dub rep I know that reads this and posts here. He most certainly is a grand man. It certainly was not my intention to obscure the issues. On the contrary.
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
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10,301
Its just not possible to link these up in the City Centre unless it goes underground - a sthings stand it will Chaos when they finally get started on the Metro so it makes sense to wait until then.

Disappointing I know and years late but the right decision under the circumstances.
 

alonso

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Maybe Catalpa, but these circumstances are directly related to FF incompetence in relation to Dublin Bus and the DTA.
 

Wolverine

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Sep 11, 2006
Messages
86
Nope.

Just my experience that on most issues that matter, the debate quickly decends into a discussion that "so and so is a decent man" (who the indecent men in the Dail are I'd love to know) and the end result is that the focus on the issue at hand is lost.

After all just look at the past week. The serious issue of accountability and corruption was drowned out by a chorus of "Bertie's a decent man" "stop trying to score political points" and the like. Where we should be debating ethics we ended up debating who would be the better drinking buddy.
 

ibis

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Mar 12, 2005
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alonso said:
Maybe Catalpa, but these circumstances are directly related to FF incompetence in relation to Dublin Bus and the DTA.
I don't even think it's incompetence. Complete lack of interest in public transport, or any kind of planning, really, except where it generates 'opportunities'.
 

Wolverine

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Sep 11, 2006
Messages
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Complete lack of interest in public transport, or any kind of planning, really, except where it generates 'opportunities'.
But sure they're decent men! Stop trying to score political points!
 

alonso

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Sep 17, 2006
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Wolv - yep fair enough, just saw the avatar and thought sh1t, that post could have been mis-read.

Ibis, to me a complete lack of interest in these things does comprise "incompetence" t be honest.
 

Kate P

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Jun 11, 2007
Messages
106
So this project has been held up, no more hiring in HSE, cancer services suspended across the country - any other evidence of a huge clawback in spending in the last month or two?

I wonder how many government departments have been told to bury files to stop payouts... eg education etc.

Is it too early for a conspiracy theory??
 

alonso

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Sep 17, 2006
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Now that I think of it, the route of Line BX has only just been chosen. they still have to get the EIS together, do public consultation, make detailed designs, hold an oral hearing, and recieve a railway order. This can take up to 18 months anyway. Perhaps they are hiding behind the Metro as an excuse?

Either way in civilised countries if one project has the potential to be held up by another, they expedite the latter, they don't delay the former. But this is Fianna Fail land where they appointed a cabbage to run the DoT for 3 years.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
alonso said:
Now that I think of it, the route of Line BX has only just been chosen. they still have to get the EIS together, do public consultation, make detailed designs, hold an oral hearing, and recieve a railway order. This can take up to 18 months anyway. Perhaps they are hiding behind the Metro as an excuse?

Either way in civilised countries if one project has the potential to be held up by another, they expedite the latter, they don't delay the former. But this is Fianna Fail land where they appointed a cabbage to run the DoT for 3 years.
If the did one now and dug up the streets again you'd be bitching about getting it right first time.
 

alonso

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Sep 17, 2006
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That's why they should speed up Metro North, not put LUAS on the long finger. you're damn right I'd complain if they didn't do these together but they've been waffling about these for a decade
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
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My family and I have just returned from Nantes in France after a fantastic holiday. One of the most noticable things is the tram system which conects the whole city. Looking it up I was astounded to read that they (The Nantes' municipal council) gathered a team of engineers in 1979 to discuss the possibility of a new tramway system. The project is set up on 10 February 1981 and financial details sorted. The government accepted financing 30% of the construction. The first line opened in 1985 with a bang; soon after its opening, traffic rose above projections, and extensions were envisioned.

6 years to organise the 1st line - God but we're living in the dark ages!
 

alonso

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Sep 17, 2006
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took us 10 to get the first line open... and it's been 30 years since 4 DART lines were proposed, but we only have it along 2 (north and south)
 

Bobb

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Jul 7, 2006
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114
OK so there's no trains but what about the rides that tag along with Cullen at launches, phwoah!
 

Paul R

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Aug 29, 2007
Messages
23
The Sunday Tribune had a feature around 3 years ago showing the first cross city links - an underground system - were proposed before the outbreak of WWI. But hey, what's the rush, don't you all have ministerial Merc's to get around in?
 

RBinge

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Jan 19, 2005
Messages
255
Well, as far as our political elite are concerned, they don't have to suffer the same commute as the rest of us, and transport infrastructure is an excuse for their supporters to make money on the back of its development.
 

DaveM

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Sep 16, 2010
Messages
16,033
alonso said:
Now that I think of it, the route of Line BX has only just been chosen. they still have to get the EIS together, do public consultation, make detailed designs, hold an oral hearing, and recieve a railway order. This can take up to 18 months anyway. Perhaps they are hiding behind the Metro as an excuse?

Either way in civilised countries if one project has the potential to be held up by another, they expedite the latter, they don't delay the former. But this is Fianna Fail land where they appointed a cabbage to run the DoT for 3 years.
As someone who has been working as a project manager on the construction of public infrastructure for almost 10 years this kind of nonsense annoys me. "Expedite the latter"? Do you know the level of planning, not to mention statutory requirements that have to be satisfied on a project of this scale? If you push ahead with insuffiecient planning then cost overruns and completion delays are inevitable. And then we'll be subjected to whinging from more armchair experts about scourge of poor planning on our projects.

Very few countries have had the kind of sustained investment in capital projects on the level we've had in this country over the 15 years. There is a limited amount of work that can be effectively executed at one time if we are to achieve an acceptable level of value for money.

It would be wise for you to consider these issues before making ill-informed generalisations about how "civilised countries" address these issues.
 
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