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Cruel Britannia


Cai

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May 30, 2004
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Ian Cobain's book, Cruel Britannia is an interesting read - provided you've got quite a strong stomach - Cruel Britannia by Ian Cobain - review | Books | The Guardian

The book catalogues the routine use of torture by British intelligence services in various arenas since the Second World War, & the routine lying by the authorities to cover up the activities of it's agents.

Personally I don't find the use of torture particularly surprising - it's always been used in wars. What is surprising to me however is the fact that politicians who lie about this (as Jack Straw did in 2005) never,ever pay a political price.

Could it be the case that the British electorate take torture in war as a 'given', & basically expect their politicians to lie about it?
 


Catalpast

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Nov 17, 2012
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26,119
Ian Cobain's book, Cruel Britannia is an interesting read - provided you've got quite a strong stomach - Cruel Britannia by Ian Cobain - review | Books | The Guardian

The book catalogues the routine use of torture by British intelligence services in various arenas since the Second World War, & the routine lying by the authorities to cover up the activities of it's agents.

Personally I don't find the use of torture particularly surprising - it's always been used in wars. What is surprising to me however is the fact that politicians who lie about this (as Jack Straw did in 2005) never,ever pay a political price.

Could it be the case that the British electorate take torture in war as a 'given', & basically expect their politicians to lie about it?
Electric shock treatment was used on captured Yemenis in the Aden Insurgency

Systemic abuse of Republican prisoners in the North was also allowed

God knows what went on in Iraq...:?
 

Cai

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Electric shock treatment was used on captured Yemenis in the Aden Insurgency

Systemic abuse of Republican prisoners in the North was also allowed

God knows what went on in Iraq...:?
Well, yes - the book catalogues much of what went on. But is at all a non story from a political. Point of view?
 

picador

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Joined
Feb 19, 2009
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21,045
Ian Cobain's book, Cruel Britannia is an interesting read - provided you've got quite a strong stomach - Cruel Britannia by Ian Cobain - review | Books | The Guardian

The book catalogues the routine use of torture by British intelligence services in various arenas since the Second World War, & the routine lying by the authorities to cover up the activities of it's agents.

Personally I don't find the use of torture particularly surprising - it's always been used in wars. What is surprising to me however is the fact that politicians who lie about this (as Jack Straw did in 2005) never,ever pay a political price.

Could it be the case that the British electorate take torture in war as a 'given', & basically expect their politicians to lie about it?
They are brainwashed and lied to - but ultimately most don't care. British tradition.
 

slippy wicket

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Mar 10, 2010
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Unfortunately sometimes extreme measures are needed to combat the enemy.
Not my cup of tea , but each to their own.
 

blokesbloke

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They are brainwashed and lied to - but ultimately most don't care. British tradition.
Yes - a brainwashed and lied-to populace who don't care about same is an entirely British tradition, quite unknown in any other country in the world.

:roll:
 

josepy

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Dec 22, 2012
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is blowing up innocent people a form of irish torture......my children were very close to one such incident.....
 

mahrud

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Are there any countries who have been involved in wars or counter insurgencies that haven't used torture or killed their unarmed foes ?
 

Cai

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Are there any countries who have been involved in wars or counter insurgencies that haven't used torture or killed their unarmed foes ?
Dunno - I can 't see what it's got. To do with the thread.
 

blokesbloke

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How do you think the empire was built?
The same as any empire was built. Such things happened before "Britain" existed and will always exist even if Britain disappears, so calling it a British tradition is just pointless and trite.
 

Cai

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just pointing out cruelty knows no particular race.......is that ok ....???
It's OK, but a bit stupid. The thread is about torture by the British intelligence services. Responding to it by saying that killing children is worse is a bit pointless.
 

Cai

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The same as any empire was built. Such things happened before "Britain" existed and will always exist even if Britain disappears, so calling it a British tradition is just pointless and trite.
Some traditions are widespread, & some are not. Torture is, as you say widespread, but it happens within a certain cultural context. We sometimes call cultural contexts traditions.
 

josepy

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Dec 22, 2012
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How do you think the empire was built?
i would say......sending, irish, scots, welch, and english soldiers and sailors to subdue the people that lived there.....

sort of a european trend at the time......lets build our cities on the proceeds of the empires.....like dublin. london, paris, berlin, amsterdam, lisbon, madrid, moscow, vienna, and many more......
 

ticketyboo

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Oct 21, 2011
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Ian Cobain's book, Cruel Britannia is an interesting read - provided you've got quite a strong stomach - Cruel Britannia by Ian Cobain - review | Books | The Guardian

The book catalogues the routine use of torture by British intelligence services in various arenas since the Second World War, & the routine lying by the authorities to cover up the activities of it's agents.

Personally I don't find the use of torture particularly surprising - it's always been used in wars. What is surprising to me however is the fact that politicians who lie about this (as Jack Straw did in 2005) never,ever pay a political price.

Could it be the case that the British electorate take torture in war as a 'given', & basically expect their politicians to lie about it?
I suppose, cai, that it falls under the remit that in war the first casualty is truth. As a Republican, all I can say personally is "you're preaching to the choir, brother", but when you read a lot of the discussions here, it is truly incredible how so many, especially "southerners" have fallen hook, line and sinker for official Brittania's version of the conflicts here, completely and utterly brainwashed to the point that any rational discourse is meaningless.
For any who still retain a desire to educate themselves, Liz Curtis' "Ireland and the Propaganda War" and "Nothing but the same old story" are required reading.
There will also follow that some will seek to disparage your innocence and tell you that it's a grown ups world and that fire must be fought with fire. However, they won't afford you the same consideration in relation to bad IRA actions in particular.
The British public, in my dealings with them, and I've had a lot, still retain a remarkable lack of knowledge about what gets done in their name, and a remarkable lack of caring in addition.
 

ticketyboo

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Oct 21, 2011
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Unfortunately sometimes extreme measures are needed to combat the enemy.
Not my cup of tea , but each to their own.
Wow - as I predicted.
Nice to get confirmation about whose side you're on though, in relation to the practice of terrorism.
 

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