Cutbacks in education assistance.

davidcameron

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It is expected that special assistance to children of both Travellers and immigrants will be cut back. Travellers are ethnically the same as ordinary Irish people. If they lived the same way as everyone else, they and their children would not be in the predicament they are in. Furthermore, it is up to immigrants to integrate by learning the English language and teaching it to their children.
 


ellie08

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It is expected that special assistance to children of both Travellers and immigrants will be cut back. Travellers are ethnically the same as ordinary Irish people. If they lived the same way as everyone else, they and their children would not be in the predicament they are in. Furthermore, it is up to immigrants to integrate by learning the English language and teaching it to their children.
Fair enough so:rolleyes: However, most of the teachers teaching the immigrants and travellers are just regular teachers with no specialist training anyway, so it was all probably a waste of time anyway, apart from the fact that kids got one to one tuition or got taught in small groups. This country was run badly in the boom, so I expect it to be just as bad during the bust. As we saw in the boom, throwing money without thought didn't really improve anything.
 

Panopticon

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It is expected that special assistance to children of both Travellers and immigrants will be cut back. Travellers are ethnically the same as ordinary Irish people. If they lived the same way as everyone else, they and their children would not be in the predicament they are in.
Correct. What is happening at the moment is massive child abuse.

Furthermore, it is up to immigrants to integrate by learning the English language and teaching it to their children.
Disagree; schools ought to spend more money teaching English so to avoid creating a UK-style permanent linguistic underclass.
 

cricket

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I think the OP is referring to special needs assistants , rather than conventional teachers. These SNA 's play a crucial role in ensuring that , for example , autistic children are exposed as much as possible to mainstream education. Crooks in the banking , building , financial and political world will get precedence over these kids.
 

Serindipity

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I'm an SNA but due to cutbacks can't get work. I'd hate to be in the position of needing an SNA for my child. They only started to get a properly regulated system and its now been dropped due to lack of funding. SN kids were meant to be integrated into mainstream where possible, now they sit in classrooms with no help and teachers struggling to cope. This country stinks...........
 

muffin

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To be honest with you, we have good schools in this country. They just should go to normal schools like any other child. They dont need assistant. The ones that need assistant are children with disabilities. Travellers and immigrants can catch up very easily that is if they are sent to school like any other child.

Special need assistants should be allocated to certain children particularly ones who have disabilties. Parents do help them but it is too hard for those children. For travellers and immigrants, if they want to be integrated, they should do so like any other irish child in this country. Plus the parents should be working with their children to help them integrate. If the parents dont, then why did they come here to Ireland then for? To use our welfare system and sponge off it. It is the parents duty to assist their children and integrate them. For children with disabilities, it is a different story.
 

cricket

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To be honest with you, we have good schools in this country. They just should go to normal schools like any other child. They dont need assistant. The ones that need assistant are children with disabilities. Travellers and immigrants can catch up very easily that is if they are sent to school like any other child.

Special need assistants should be allocated to certain children particularly ones who have disabilties. Parents do help them but it is too hard for those children. For travellers and immigrants, if they want to be integrated, they should do so like any other irish child in this country. Plus the parents should be working with their children to help them integrate. If the parents dont, then why did they come here to Ireland then for? To use our welfare system and sponge off it. It is the parents duty to assist their children and integrate them. For children with disabilities, it is a different story.
I know cases where families have come here and nobody spoke English. Kids go to school and are given extra tuition in English. They end up dealing with things that parents deal with in other families , people calling to the door , etc. Without the extra tuition , the kids themselves would fall behind the class , let alone be unable to help their parents cope.
 

ellie08

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To be honest with you, we have good schools in this country. They just should go to normal schools like any other child. They dont need assistant. The ones that need assistant are children with disabilities. Travellers and immigrants can catch up very easily that is if they are sent to school like any other child.

Special need assistants should be allocated to certain children particularly ones who have disabilties. Parents do help them but it is too hard for those children. For travellers and immigrants, if they want to be integrated, they should do so like any other irish child in this country. Plus the parents should be working with their children to help them integrate. If the parents dont, then why did they come here to Ireland then for? To use our welfare system and sponge off it. It is the parents duty to assist their children and integrate them. For children with disabilities, it is a different story.
And what about the children whose parents' don't help them muffin? Teacher training does not adequately train teachers to deal with every type of disability or children with English as a second language (though the latter do extremely well as many of the immigrant parents realise the importance of education, especially the ones from Eastern Europe who would have received excellent schooling for the most part). It is not good enough to throw these kids into over crowded classrooms. The way things are going they will have to change the curriculum, bring back the benches, and go back to the old days.
 

AddressTheNation

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My mother teaches in a "disadvantaged" school. Money is thrown at it, yet they still can't get to grips with higher level anything. It's a cultural problem. The parents would do well to send their kids to more established schools, but they won't because of inner city inverse snobbery that exists. The culture of the underclasses is what I call it. It ruins people's lives. To go to a performing school is to betray "where you came from".
 

Serindipity

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Your right the majority of children that SNA's work with have learning/behavioural difficulties such as autism, ADHD etc. But in some cases children from minority backgrounds display behavioural problems due to a disadvantaged background, neglect. Personally I think they have an equal right to this help and therefore funding should not be cut. I have been in a class of 30 with a child with behavioural difficulties and he could be extremely disruptive without guidance.
 

Serindipity

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My mother teaches in a "disadvantaged" school. Money is thrown at it, yet they still can't get to grips with higher level anything. It's a cultural problem. The parents would do well to send their kids to more established schools, but they won't because of inner city inverse snobbery that exists. The culture of the underclasses is what I call it. It ruins people's lives. To go to a performing school is to betray "where you came from".
I've come accross this as well the funding has not been cut from 'disadvantaged' schools but if you happen to live in an 'advantaged' area your child will not recieve an SNA - 3 have been let go from our NS in last year.
 

ellie08

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My mother teaches in a "disadvantaged" school. Money is thrown at it, yet they still can't get to grips with higher level anything. It's a cultural problem. The parents would do well to send their kids to more established schools, but they won't because of inner city inverse snobbery that exists. The culture of the underclasses is what I call it. It ruins people's lives. To go to a performing school is to betray "where you came from".
The education system is too intellectual for some. There needs to be more practical subjects so that everyone has the help to make their lives meaningful. Perhaps now more than ever we need people with practical skills that should be nurtured form an early age. If you can't read well or learn your tables you're fupped the whole way up through school.
 

making waves

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However, most of the teachers teaching the immigrants and travellers are just regular teachers with no specialist training anyway, so it was all probably a waste of time anyway, apart from the fact that kids got one to one tuition or got taught in small groups.
Your assertion that teachers are not trained is nonsense - many teachers engage in extra studies to get qualifications for teaching resources classes (I have myself). The same goes for ESL teaching. The problem lies with the Dept of Education. The Dept have set standards for teaching English as a second language in private language schools and summertime schools - yet have had absolutely no criteria in place for schools in the normal education system. Of course at this stage it is irrelevent as there is little or no ESL classes these days with cutbacks.

I know cases where families have come here and nobody spoke English. Kids go to school and are given extra tuition in English. They end up dealing with things that parents deal with in other families , people calling to the door , etc.
Correct - a number of years I can across a situation where a child with broken English was translating for a single parent with no English and suffering from a serious illness with hospital doctors.

My mother teaches in a "disadvantaged" school. Money is thrown at it, yet they still can't get to grips with higher level anything. It's a cultural problem. The parents would do well to send their kids to more established schools, but they won't because of inner city inverse snobbery that exists. The culture of the underclasses is what I call it. It ruins people's lives. To go to a performing school is to betray "where you came from".
This is a lot of nonsense to be honest.

Your right the majority of children that SNA's work with have learning/behavioural difficulties such as autism, ADHD etc. But in some cases children from minority backgrounds display behavioural problems due to a disadvantaged background, neglect. Personally I think they have an equal right to this help and therefore funding should not be cut. I have been in a class of 30 with a child with behavioural difficulties and he could be extremely disruptive without guidance.
Again - my recent experience with a child who has behavioural difficulties and was disrupting classes. This child and their class would have benefitted significantly from having an SNA to work with. Instead the parents were told that the child should be medicated - the result - the child is now half comatosed.

The education system is too intellectual for some. There needs to be more practical subjects so that everyone has the help to make their lives meaningful.
The current system is almost exclusively orientated towards academic achievement and the points system. The LCA programme goes part of the way towards redressing the balance - but guess what - the government are cutting funding to LCA. Its a false economy as poor educational achievement means greater unemployment, more social problems and greater cost to the state.
 

ellie08

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Your assertion that teachers are not trained is nonsense - many teachers engage in extra studies to get qualifications for teaching resources classes (I have myself). The same goes for ESL teaching. The problem lies with the Dept of Education.



I'm not criticizing the teachers, the fact is the training is minimal. One course where you receive a 'cert' in special needs, it requires little more than turning up once a week to listen to lectures for one semester and you write out your thoughts on the lecture or write a 300 word essay if you missed it. Hardly good enough don't you think. More practical training is involved (though of course more time is spent on the more important subject of religion), or else there should be special schools for those with more severe disabilities. The lumping of every child together in a one size fits all system is doomed to fail many children. Not the fault of teacher but the fault, yet again of our dear political leaders who have brought such rewards to its citizens. When we had the money nothing was done, apart from throwing in more SNA posts and of course the wonderful six month - 9 month 1-2 eve a week teaching assistants. Yes it was better than nothing, but not good enough by any stretch of the imagination.
 

muffin

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I know cases where families have come here and nobody spoke English. Kids go to school and are given extra tuition in English. They end up dealing with things that parents deal with in other families , people calling to the door , etc. Without the extra tuition , the kids themselves would fall behind the class , let alone be unable to help their parents cope.
I understand the difficulties and not criticising that. To be honest, then we have to have stricter immigration controls where parents should be able to speak the language of english before coming here. We cant be forking out money to the whole of eastern europe to come to ireland and not speak the language at all. How do people come into the country not speaking the language is beyound me and how are they going to get jobs? I understand some are from serious trouble, etc but realistically we cant be supporting everyone.
 

ellie08

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I understand the difficulties and not criticising that. To be honest, then we have to have stricter immigration controls where parents should be able to speak the language of english before coming here. We cant be forking out money to the whole of eastern europe to come to ireland and not speak the language at all. How do people come into the country not speaking the language is beyound me and how are they going to get jobs? I understand some are from serious trouble, etc but realistically we cant be supporting everyone.
The immigrants are not the problem. It's the system. There are cases where extremely bright immigrant children with excellent English (sometimes better than some of their Irish classmates!) are given individual tuition and Irish children who badly need extra help are not given it because they are irish! I repeat, don't blame the immigrants, blame the govt and their shoddy system.
 

muffin

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And what about the children whose parents' don't help them muffin? Teacher training does not adequately train teachers to deal with every type of disability or children with English as a second language (though the latter do extremely well as many of the immigrant parents realise the importance of education, especially the ones from Eastern Europe who would have received excellent schooling for the most part). It is not good enough to throw these kids into over crowded classrooms. The way things are going they will have to change the curriculum, bring back the benches, and go back to the old days.
I dont mean to sound harsh but answer this question if your child has problems in french or etc. Does the government bend over to educate your child for free. The answer would be no. It is the parents duty to look after their children, not the government. I never implemented children with disabilties here at all, I was purely talking about immigration children. We need stricter controls on immigration and ensure that the parents speak english as a language before coming to ireland. That makes a massive differnence as they live at home. We cant be educating the whole of eastern europe for free if they come here, not speaking the language, how are the parents going to work? It doesnt make any sense and means the government gives everything free to them without them paying any taxes.
 

ellie08

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I dont mean to sound harsh but answer this question if your child has problems in french or etc. Does the government bend over to educate your child for free. The answer would be no. It is the parents duty to look after their children, not the government. I never implemented children with disabilties here at all, I was purely talking about immigration children. We need stricter controls on immigration and ensure that the parents speak english as a language before coming to ireland. That makes a massive differnence as they live at home. We cant be educating the whole of eastern europe for free if they come here, not speaking the language, how are the parents going to work? It doesnt make any sense and means the government gives everything free to them without them paying any taxes.
Their parents do help. From my experience the immigrant children and their parents are far more motivated and have greater regard for education than some of our own. In certain sections of our society, there is no parental help, and the children are incredibly weak and have extreme behavioural problems. it's not an immigrant problem, they are excelling in school and generally are very well behaved.
 

muffin

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The immigrants are not the problem. It's the system. There are cases where extremely bright immigrant children with excellent English (sometimes better than some of their Irish classmates!) are given individual tuition and Irish children who badly need extra help are not given it because they are irish! I repeat, don't blame the immigrants, blame the govt and their shoddy system.

Of course, there would be bright children but children with disabilities would need alot more help than them. That is what am saying. I agree with the fact they do well with abit of support but Ireland doesnt have the money. It is way more isolating for a child with a disability. If they cant speak english, then my question is can the parents? Then how they come here and not able to get work cos cant speak the language and not pay taxes. I understand it was a good sytem but there isnt any money. 15 years ago, there wasnt even any money for people with disabilities to be integrated into society and schools as I know from my cousin.
 

muffin

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Their parents do help. From my experience the immigrant children and their parents are far more motivated and have greater regard for education than some of our own. In certain sections of our society, there is no parental help, and the children are incredibly weak and have extreme behavioural problems. it's not an immigrant problem, they are excelling in school and generally are very well behaved.
Of course, I would say there are some that do. I am aware that some do work very hard too. It varies from family to family
 


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