Cycle to Work Scheme

Louth Planner

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Sorry if this forum is not the correct one but I have searched some of the others and couldn't find anything on the story. Yesterday it was reported that the cycle to work scheme where tax incentives are given where an employer pays for a bike and accessories for employees. The scheme is on hold for fear that civil servants may bring claims against the employer.

I dont quite get this. Is it claims for accidents for coming to work if they were knocked down while on the bike? Is anyone else outraged about this? Where is the foundation for this? Anyone?
 


White Horse

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What is the legal position if a person is injured on a bicyle provied by his/her employer under this scheme?

I'm sure the Greens have thought this through and can explain it.
 

Louth Planner

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What is the legal position if a person is injured on a bicyle provied by his/her employer under this scheme?

I'm sure the Greens have thought this through and can explain it.
Same position as a company car I suppose, or injuries for any cyclist. It should not be the responsibility of the employer and any judge who fiunds against an empoloyer on any bogus claim submitted to the courts by such an employee, the judge should fine the employee for wasting court time.

It is not a compulsory scheme. The employer will not make the employee take up the offer of a bike so it should be on the employees head to get to work safely. If they are injured through no fault of their own i.e. hit by someone else, they should claim against that other person. Its not the employers fault.

From the article in the Indo yesterday it sounds like thisd is all about civil servants.
 

wexfordman

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Seems some people are trying to ride the situation altogether!!

But I suspect its a cyclicle thing and the situation will return to normal soon enough.

Anyone who tries to claim compo is going to find thier expectations being deflated and hopefully will get tyred of the whole thing pretty quick
 

wexfordman

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dresden8

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I suspect a smokescreen.

The truth I'm sure is that not many employers, especially in large organisation like the public service, want to set up sections and units whose job it will be to buy bikes, helmets and puncture bleedin repair kits while there's real work to be done.
 

geraghd

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What is the legal position if a person is injured on a bicyle provied by his/her employer under this scheme?

I'm sure the Greens have thought this through and can explain it.
Im sure it's the same as the Cycle to Work scheme in the UK where many employers have taken it up. If they don't seem to have problems here in the UK then why would they have them in Ireland..
 

alonso

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this is a load of nonsense though. It's a very small scheme, very simple and easy to implement, takes up sh4g all time - YOU buy the bike yourself, no one is employed to buy it, all the employer does is process the thing and sort out the paperwork, which is minimal. As geraghd says, the UK have had it for years. It's like the car club idea, a huge success in Europe and the UK and now in Cork. It was halted in Dublin city for the same spurious "insurance issues". It's bullsh1t from a few lazy dinosaurs who just couldn't be ar5ed
 

geraghd

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this is a load of nonsense though. It's a very small scheme, very simple and easy to implement, takes up sh4g all time - YOU buy the bike yourself, no one is employed to buy it, all the employer does is process the thing and sort out the paperwork, which is minimal. As geraghd says, the UK have had it for years. It's like the car club idea, a huge success in Europe and the UK and now in Cork. It was halted in Dublin city for the same spurious "insurance issues". It's bullsh1t from a few lazy dinosaurs who just couldn't be ar5ed
Although the thing is (and I believe this is how the tax savings are devised) the bicycle is hired out to the employee under a normal Hire Agreement, so that the employer is the one that owns it up until the final payment is made via their salary and then a nominal value is paid seperately in order for the employee to legally take ownership of it.
I can see where questions arise in terms of accidents, as technically the bicycle belongs to the employer, but this I imagine is simply all covered in the small print of the Hire Agreement.
 

alonso

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i Dunno though geraghd, it's only an oul bike. The scheme covers up to €1000 i think but how many of us will pay that for a bike? Most will pay less than 500 and i'd say a huge majority could simply save for a few months for that and buy it outright
 

geraghd

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i Dunno though geraghd, it's only an oul bike. The scheme covers up to €1000 i think but how many of us will pay that for a bike? Most will pay less than 500 and i'd say a huge majority could simply save for a few months for that and buy it outright
Well Im not sure what the average amount paid per bike would be, but I worked for a company that handles these kind of benefits for different employers, and there were quite a few people who selected up to £1000 for a bike. The thing is, good commuting bikes can be very expensive, and if someone is paying only approx £600 for a £1000 bike there would be plenty of takers. Many were in and around the 400-500 mark, but if one is on a decent salary paying something in the order of £50 net per month for a year isn't that much for a quality bicycle worth £1000 that will last a couple of years of daily wear and tear if indeed it is used to commute to work.

And why save for a few months and pay the full cost when you can have the bike almost straight away at anything up to 40% off.

Saying that, there wasn't that many people taking it as a proportion of total employees, but the way it operates here in the UK, it's a fantastic deal.
 

alonso

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yeh you're right, there's no point in buying a bad bike as it would deter people from using it anyway. But the only thing that could make this scheme unsuccessful is good old fashioned Irish institutonal and administrative inertia...
 

White Horse

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Im sure it's the same as the Cycle to Work scheme in the UK where many employers have taken it up. If they don't seem to have problems here in the UK then why would they have them in Ireland..
I only ask as I enquired from the HR people in my company whether they considered participating in the scheme.

The reply was that they did look into it. However, legal advice was that it would open up the company to risk exposure as there is no statutory licencing and testing of cyclists. Therefore, the company would have to decide who was competant to operate a bicycle. This would make the company liable to all resulting accidents, injuries, and deaths.
 

geraghd

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I only ask as I enquired from the HR people in my company whether they considered participating in the scheme.

The reply was that they did look into it. However, legal advice was that it would open up the company to risk exposure as there is no statutory licencing and testing of cyclists. Therefore, the company would have to decide who was competant to operate a bicycle. This would make the company liable to all resulting accidents, injuries, and deaths.
Hmm... yeah interesting, obviously the in-house legal advice could be wrong or very much on the conservative side. It would be interesting to know how UK companies have dealt with that issue, and Irish companies could then follow suit.
 

myksav

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I only ask as I enquired from the HR people in my company whether they considered participating in the scheme.

The reply was that they did look into it. However, legal advice was that it would open up the company to risk exposure as there is no statutory licencing and testing of cyclists. Therefore, the company would have to decide who was competant to operate a bicycle. This would make the company liable to all resulting accidents, injuries, and deaths.
WH, did you know that the average decent bicycle frame is as strong or stronger than an aircraft for its purpose?

Good bikes don't need "statutary licencing and testing" because the company would fold if they produced poor bikes. If the bike ain't good, no one buys them.

Anyone who buys a cheap new bike for commuting is a fool. Cheap would be under 500 euro. Really good bike go for at least 1,000 to 1,500 and up.
 

White Horse

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WH, did you know that the average decent bicycle frame is as strong or stronger than an aircraft for its purpose?

Good bikes don't need "statutary licencing and testing" because the company would fold if they produced poor bikes. If the bike ain't good, no one buys them.

Anyone who buys a cheap new bike for commuting is a fool. Cheap would be under 500 euro. Really good bike go for at least 1,000 to 1,500 and up.
I don't doubt what you say. However, my understanding is that the legal issue pertained to the ability of the person to operate the bicycle.

Currently, one must obtain a driving licence before any company will give provide a company car.

No such standard exists for cyclists which means companies are resonsible for determining who is proficient in cycling and their understanding the rules of the road.

As it was expalined to me, this creates a legal exposure for the company.

However, maybe those involved in drafting this scheme have legal advice from the AG that is more comprehensive.
 

myksav

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I don't doubt what you say. However, my understanding is that the legal issue pertained to the ability of the person to operate the bicycle.

Currently, one must obtain a driving licence before any company will give provide a company car.
No such standard exists for cyclists which means companies are resonsible for determining who is proficient in cycling and their understanding the rules of the road.

As it was expalined to me, this creates a legal exposure for the company.

However, maybe those involved in drafting this scheme have legal advice from the AG that is more comprehensive.
That would be because you need a licence to drive a motorised vehicle in Ireland. And most other countries.

If people already drive a car, then they should already know the rules of the road and the same basic rules apply to human powered vehicles.

I have heard some mention of a test for cyclists put forward years ago. It was shot down in flames.
A test would require testers, administration, etc. All costs that would be on the cyclist to be. As most of these learners are children, parents would be the payer. Can you see parents being happy to pay this? Or do you think that they would let their children have bikes in the first place if it cost?

Technically, this scheme would be like a hire purchase agreement for buying a car. Is the hire purchase company responsible for the driving ability of the purchaser? No, it's the driver who is responsible for being competent to drive/hold a licence.
 


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