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Cyprus bailout answers a few questions


Prof Honeydew

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When the $hit hit the fan here in Ireland, we'd no shortage of experts both inside and outside Dail Eireann telling us what should be done. While most of these solutions could neither be proved nor disproved at the time, Cyprus's current difficulties clears the air in a few areas that were pushed by Fine Gael, Labour, Sinn Fein, Shane Ross and various pop economists at the time of the bailout.

Burn the bondholders. Cyprus are in the situation they're in because Greece's bondholders got burned which, in turn, led to the Cypriot banks becoming insolvent. Because the Irish banks relied far more heavily on bonds than on deposits for the financing requirements, the fallout from an Ireland burnout would have been way more catastrophic and, while the brunt of the effects may have been heaviest in Britain and Germany, we would have been right royally screwed ourselves as a result.

Tell the EU to fukk off. Cyprus did and it got them nowhere. After just a few days, they're back to square one with their tails between their legs.

Okay, a lot of this may seem unfair to smaller economies but, hey, that's life. When your back is to the wall, the guy with the money has you by the short and curlys and your only way out is to swallow your pride and make the best of a bad situation. Some day, the boot may be on the other foot.
 

General Urko

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Oct 24, 2012
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But Cyprus are really small fry in EU eyes!
What has been the attitude of the Turkish side of it, I think it has been to tell them to seek a bailout from Turkish banks.
BTW The Turkish side is not in the EU despite having voted to join it!:mad:
 

CarnivalOfAction

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Jun 15, 2010
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When the $hit hit the fan here in Ireland, we'd no shortage of experts both inside and outside Dail Eireann telling us what should be done. While most of these solutions could neither be proved nor disproved at the time, Cyprus's current difficulties clears the air in a few areas that were pushed by Fine Gael, Labour, Sinn Fein, Shane Ross and various pop economists at the time of the bailout.

Burn the bondholders. Cyprus are in the situation they're in because Greece's bondholders got burned which, in turn, led to the Cypriot banks becoming insolvent. Because the Irish banks relied far more heavily on bonds than on deposits for the financing requirements, the fallout from an Ireland burnout would have been way more catastrophic and, while the brunt of the effects may have been heaviest in Britain and Germany, we would have been right royally screwed ourselves as a result.

Tell the EU to fukk off. Cyprus did and it got them nowhere. After just a few days, they're back to square one with their tails between their legs.

Okay, a lot of this may seem unfair to smaller economies but, hey, that's life. When your back is to the wall, the guy with the money has you by the short and curlys and your only way out is to swallow your pride and make the best of a bad situation. Some day, the boot may be on the other foot.
Typical craven grovelling by an apologist for FFailure. Iceland is far smaller than Cyprus [which is far smaller than Ireland], but stood up to the bully banksters and is growing with falling unemployment.
 

BlackLion

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Typical craven grovelling by an apologist for FFailure. Iceland is far smaller than Cyprus [which is far smaller than Ireland], but stood up to the bully banksters and is growing with falling unemployment.
If Iceland was apart of the EU then things would be different.
 

ManUnited

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Typical craven grovelling by an apologist for FFailure. Iceland is far smaller than Cyprus [which is far smaller than Ireland], but stood up to the bully banksters and is growing with falling unemployment.
Do you think everything is rosy in Iceland? You should try reading beyond P.ie. A lot of screwed over people there.
 

Prof Honeydew

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Typical craven grovelling by an apologist for FFailure. Iceland is far smaller than Cyprus [which is far smaller than Ireland], but stood up to the bully banksters and is growing with falling unemployment.
Iceland is growing in kronur terms but the kronur has more than halved in value since the crisis erupted. The kronur is also no longer a convertible currency as heavy currency controls have been imposed and its value is set by whatever amounts of foreign currency the Icelandic Central Bank periodically buys.

There is still an enormous legacy of private debt to be resolved. During the boom, Icelandic mortgages were based on loans in foreign currency. However, as the assets against the mortgages are valued in kronur, most homeowners are now in negative equity way beyond anything experienced here.

In convertible currency terms, most Icelanders are now bankrupt. Unless they join the EU and adopt the euro, the only way out is to hope that exports by their primary resources sectors (mostly fishing and aluminium) generate enough foreign currency to allow the kronur to return to convertability. But until then, statistics regarding economic performance are as reliable as those of the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe before the Wall came down.

As regards standing up to the bankers, Iceland's biggest external post-crash problem was the debt resulting from Icesave. The parliament twice rejected the terms reached with the Brits and the Dutch but they still ended up a deal that wasn't noticeably different from that proposed in the first place.
 

Ulster-Lad

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The main thread on this did not answer the questions of the OP??
 

Prof Honeydew

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The main thread on this did not answer the questions of the OP??
The reason I started this thread was to provoke some discussion regarding burning bondholders, saying no the troika and other responses bandied about by politicians, economists and columnists since the crisis erupted. Rather than focusing solely on Cyprus's current difficulties, I wanted to look at the effects such responses might have in general and how other countries like Ireland, Greece, Iceland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Slovenia etc. have fared as a result of whatever avenues they have followed.
 

Porkypie

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Dec 14, 2012
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When the $hit hit the fan here in Ireland, we'd no shortage of experts both inside and outside Dail Eireann telling us what should be done. While most of these solutions could neither be proved nor disproved at the time, Cyprus's current difficulties clears the air in a few areas that were pushed by Fine Gael, Labour, Sinn Fein, Shane Ross and various pop economists at the time of the bailout.

Burn the bondholders. Cyprus are in the situation they're in because Greece's bondholders got burned which, in turn, led to the Cypriot banks becoming insolvent. Because the Irish banks relied far more heavily on bonds than on deposits for the financing requirements, the fallout from an Ireland burnout would have been way more catastrophic and, while the brunt of the effects may have been heaviest in Britain and Germany, we would have been right royally screwed ourselves as a result.

Tell the EU to fukk off. Cyprus did and it got them nowhere. After just a few days, they're back to square one with their tails between their legs.

Okay, a lot of this may seem unfair to smaller economies but, hey, that's life. When your back is to the wall, the guy with the money has you by the short and curlys and your only way out is to swallow your pride and make the best of a bad situation. Some day, the boot may be on the other foot.
A FF blinkered view and for that reason I'm out
 

GDPR

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224,093
This article from the IT might be of interest on this thread.

Cypriot drama puts Irelands response to its banking crisis into new perspective.

Cypriot drama puts Ireland

Also interesting to me anyway is the latest ECB response, "Do what we want or we pull the plug on your banks" and this time they say it in the open.

I wonder what Ibis, McDave and other ECB/EU lovers have to say to that.
 

Mad as Fish

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Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,449
This article from the IT might be of interest on this thread.

Cypriot drama puts Irelands response to its banking crisis into new perspective.

Cypriot drama puts Ireland

Also interesting to me anyway is the latest ECB response, "Do what we want or we pull the plug on your banks" and this time they say it in the open.

I wonder what Ibis, McDave and other ECB/EU lovers have to say to that.
They'll be too busy polishing the boots to notice.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
7,224
This article from the IT might be of interest on this thread.

Cypriot drama puts Irelands response to its banking crisis into new perspective.

Cypriot drama puts Ireland

Also interesting to me anyway is the latest ECB response, "Do what we want or we pull the plug on your banks" and this time they say it in the open.

I wonder what Ibis, McDave and other ECB/EU lovers have to say to that.
pacta sunt servanda
 

JacquesHughes

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Feb 16, 2013
Messages
1,124
Stephen Collins' s is an exceptionally thoughtful article. Points out that Noonan was one of the Finance Ministers who as part of the EU put the controversial 'burn the savers' deal to Cyprus; (not much solidarity there). It's correct that the bank guarantee was a response to the crisis, not it's cause (the cause was ten years of expensive, untried policies implemented at breakneck speed before their consequences could be costed; all while under the disorienting influence of loud EU encouragement).

But, how can Cyprus's banks be bankrupt if they are stuffed full of hot money? Surely they are only doing what Switzerland did very profitably for years?
 

Expatriot

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Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
4,325
When the $hit hit the fan here in Ireland, we'd no shortage of experts both inside and outside Dail Eireann telling us what should be done. While most of these solutions could neither be proved nor disproved at the time, Cyprus's current difficulties clears the air in a few areas that were pushed by Fine Gael, Labour, Sinn Fein, Shane Ross and various pop economists at the time of the bailout.

Burn the bondholders. Cyprus are in the situation they're in because Greece's bondholders got burned which, in turn, led to the Cypriot banks becoming insolvent. Because the Irish banks relied far more heavily on bonds than on deposits for the financing requirements, the fallout from an Ireland burnout would have been way more catastrophic and, while the brunt of the effects may have been heaviest in Britain and Germany, we would have been right royally screwed ourselves as a result.

Tell the EU to fukk off. Cyprus did and it got them nowhere. After just a few days, they're back to square one with their tails between their legs.

Okay, a lot of this may seem unfair to smaller economies but, hey, that's life. When your back is to the wall, the guy with the money has you by the short and curlys and your only way out is to swallow your pride and make the best of a bad situation. Some day, the boot may be on the other foot.
How was the EU told to F-off?

Cyprus is the EU as is Ireland. The people in the Q at the ATM are the EU.

Not allowing an elected elite tell an elected government what choices to make is now telling the EU to F-off?

Amazing take on it.
 

Expatriot

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
4,325
This article from the IT might be of interest on this thread.

Cypriot drama puts Irelands response to its banking crisis into new perspective.

Cypriot drama puts Ireland

Also interesting to me anyway is the latest ECB response, "Do what we want or we pull the plug on your banks" and this time they say it in the open.

I wonder what Ibis, McDave and other ECB/EU lovers have to say to that.
Anyone reading that would think the said Irish banks had survived and not collapsed leaving a black hole we cannot fill...

When all is said an done in a few months we can compare notes with the Cypriots, God help them if they took a worse path than us with the banks.
 
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