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Dartmouth Square now protected (at last)


NotDevsSon

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Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
174
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
 


ibis

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Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
NotDevsSon said:
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
Huzzah!

Minor point - "special conversation area"? Are you sure? I mean, it's a lovely concept...I'll certainly be going there for my next chat.
 

CookieMonster

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Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
34,659
What has happened to Noel. He was a member here for a while I recall.
 

alonso

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Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
good,

Source?
 

mollox

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Joined
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Messages
202
NotDevsSon said:
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
Any chance they'd do the same for Leinster Lawn?
Just one more glaring example of how our political classes don't believe that normal laws/rules apply to themselves. :evil:
 

alonso

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Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
CookieMonster said:
What has happened to Noel. He was a member here for a while I recall.
He surfaced on archiseek for a while over xmas ranting about the "waste that is Sandymount strand" supporting an overground motorway, then he went on a mad one about dead patriots and bureaucrats. I think he got banned. Was he banned here? He was pretty funny.
 

alonso

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Joined
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Messages
2,573
ibis said:
Huzzah!

Minor point - "special conversation area"? Are you sure? I mean, it's a lovely concept...I'll certainly be going there for my next chat.
:D a typo i've made myself a few times in the course of my working day.
 

NotDevsSon

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Messages
174
alonso said:
good,

Source?
RTE Nine O'Clock News. Wasn't on their website the last time I checked.
 

ibis

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Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
alonso said:
CookieMonster said:
What has happened to Noel. He was a member here for a while I recall.
He surfaced on archiseek for a while over xmas ranting about the "waste that is Sandymount strand" supporting an overground motorway, then he went on a mad one about dead patriots and bureaucrats. I think he got banned. Was he banned here? He was pretty funny.
Don't know whether he was banned. He was certainly here in the runup to the election.

He is also in favour of putting dual carriageways on top of the canals, and a motorway along the Liffey. I've seen one of his letters to the DTO on the subject - very much a green ink job.
 

Champa

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
33
mollox said:
NotDevsSon said:
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
Any chance they'd do the same for Leinster Lawn?
Just one more glaring example of how our political classes don't believe that normal laws/rules apply to themselves. :evil:
The 0 comments left under "Leinster House Shouldn’t Be Surrounded By Concrete And Cars" on Shane Ross's blog indicates that nobody cares.

http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/268/268/
 

alonso

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Messages
2,573
cheers NDS it's on the site now.

ibis his manifesto was less coherent than reading Finnegan's Wake on crack. His stuff on archiseek was brilliant. He linked the closure of the Burlington hotel to the 1916 Rising with Dev's unconstitutional constitution somehwere in between. It was a sight to behold
 

mollox

Active member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
202
Champa said:
mollox said:
NotDevsSon said:
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
Any chance they'd do the same for Leinster Lawn?
Just one more glaring example of how our political classes don't believe that normal laws/rules apply to themselves. :evil:
The 0 comments left under "Leinster House Shouldn’t Be Surrounded By Concrete And Cars" on Shane Ross's blog indicates that nobody cares.

http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/268/268/
And I can't leave one because I hate the tosser!
 

NotDevsSon

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
174
Champa said:
mollox said:
NotDevsSon said:
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
Any chance they'd do the same for Leinster Lawn?
Just one more glaring example of how our political classes don't believe that normal laws/rules apply to themselves. :evil:
The 0 comments left under "Leinster House Shouldn’t Be Surrounded By Concrete And Cars" on Shane Ross's blog indicates that nobody cares.
http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/268/268/
In reality the only way to restore Leinster Lawn will be by building an underground car park, and that would cost over 100 million according to the OPW. People often forget how many people work in parliaments. Leinster House for example will have 226 TDs and senators, they will all have secretaries. There will be researchers, porters, cleaners, kitchen staff (2 kitchens), bar staff (2 bars), police, army, political admin staff, journalists and broadcasters, and many many others. Leinster House probably has a staff well in excess of 1200 people. And that is before you add in hundreds of members of the public, etc. When you take the numbers together it probably has a population of a small Irish town, but only 2 car parks. Given that some kitchen staff may be in every early, cleaners late at night, TDs travelling long distances, and other staff working odd hours, many of those staff wouldn't be able to rely on public transport.

The people who park on the lawn would be staff, not TDs. And even then only a fraction of people who would work there would be able to park. So returning the lawn to a lawn would only be possible by building underground parking, something most parliaments have had for decades. But how popular do you think it would be if the OPW proposed to spend over 100 million on digging up the lawn, putting in an underground car park and then reinstating the lawn, free of cars? People would scream blue murder about TDs "squandering" a hundred million on their car parking, even though the vast majority of the people using it wouldn't be politicians at all, but cleaners, kitchen staff and secretaries.

So unfortunately it looks like Leinster Lawn is going to be stuck as a car park indefinitely. It was put in as a temporary measure. But the OPW didn't take into account that in the early 2000s the number of staff using Leinster House would go through the roof, while the number of Leinster House administrative staff forced to live in Navan or Leixlip or whereever would rocket, making them dependent on cars.
 

ibis

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
NotDevsSon said:
Champa said:
mollox said:
NotDevsSon said:
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
Any chance they'd do the same for Leinster Lawn?
Just one more glaring example of how our political classes don't believe that normal laws/rules apply to themselves. :evil:
The 0 comments left under "Leinster House Shouldn’t Be Surrounded By Concrete And Cars" on Shane Ross's blog indicates that nobody cares.
http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/268/268/
In reality the only way to restore Leinster Lawn will be by building an underground car park, and that would cost over 100 million according to the OPW. People often forget how many people work in parliaments. Leinster House for example will have 226 TDs and senators, they will all have secretaries. There will be researchers, porters, cleaners, kitchen staff (2 kitchens), bar staff (2 bars), police, army, political admin staff, journalists and broadcasters, and many many others. Leinster House probably has a staff well in excess of 1200 people. And that is before you add in hundreds of members of the public, etc. When you take the numbers together it probably has a population of a small Irish town, but only 2 car parks. Given that some kitchen staff may be in every early, cleaners late at night, TDs travelling long distances, and other staff working odd hours, many of those staff wouldn't be able to rely on public transport.

The people who park on the lawn would be staff, not TDs. And even then only a fraction of people who would work there would be able to park. So returning the lawn to a lawn would only be possible by building underground parking, something most parliaments have had for decades. But how popular do you think it would be if the OPW proposed to spend over 100 million on digging up the lawn, putting in an underground car park and then reinstating the lawn, free of cars? People would scream blue murder about TDs "squandering" a hundred million on their car parking, even though the vast majority of the people using it wouldn't be politicians at all, but cleaners, kitchen staff and secretaries.

So unfortunately it looks like Leinster Lawn is going to be stuck as a car park indefinitely. It was put in as a temporary measure. But the OPW didn't take into account that in the early 2000s the number of staff using Leinster House would go through the roof, while the number of Leinster House administrative staff forced to live in Navan or Leixlip or whereever would rocket, making them dependent on cars.
Hmm. How much would it cost to make a deal with somewhere like the Stephen's Green Centre? A million a year?
 

NotDevsSon

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
174
ibis said:
NotDevsSon said:
Champa said:
mollox said:
NotDevsSon said:
Dartmouth Square was tonight made a special conversation area by Dublin City Council, preventing Noel O'Gara's ever nuttier schemes for the park.

Bet his isn't happy. :lol:
Any chance they'd do the same for Leinster Lawn?
Just one more glaring example of how our political classes don't believe that normal laws/rules apply to themselves. :evil:
The 0 comments left under "Leinster House Shouldn’t Be Surrounded By Concrete And Cars" on Shane Ross's blog indicates that nobody cares.
http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/268/268/
In reality the only way to restore Leinster Lawn will be by building an underground car park, and that would cost over 100 million according to the OPW. People often forget how many people work in parliaments. Leinster House for example will have 226 TDs and senators, they will all have secretaries. There will be researchers, porters, cleaners, kitchen staff (2 kitchens), bar staff (2 bars), police, army, political admin staff, journalists and broadcasters, and many many others. Leinster House probably has a staff well in excess of 1200 people. And that is before you add in hundreds of members of the public, etc. When you take the numbers together it probably has a population of a small Irish town, but only 2 car parks. Given that some kitchen staff may be in every early, cleaners late at night, TDs travelling long distances, and other staff working odd hours, many of those staff wouldn't be able to rely on public transport.

The people who park on the lawn would be staff, not TDs. And even then only a fraction of people who would work there would be able to park. So returning the lawn to a lawn would only be possible by building underground parking, something most parliaments have had for decades. But how popular do you think it would be if the OPW proposed to spend over 100 million on digging up the lawn, putting in an underground car park and then reinstating the lawn, free of cars? People would scream blue murder about TDs "squandering" a hundred million on their car parking, even though the vast majority of the people using it wouldn't be politicians at all, but cleaners, kitchen staff and secretaries.

So unfortunately it looks like Leinster Lawn is going to be stuck as a car park indefinitely. It was put in as a temporary measure. But the OPW didn't take into account that in the early 2000s the number of staff using Leinster House would go through the roof, while the number of Leinster House administrative staff forced to live in Navan or Leixlip or whereever would rocket, making them dependent on cars.
Hmm. How much would it cost to make a deal with somewhere like the Stephen's Green Centre? A million a year?
a) There are not enough spare places. If they took the green centre places, there would complaints from drivers about Oireachtas staff getting priority and taking 'their' places.
b) The gardai would raise security concerns about Oireachtas staff parking in a non-secure area. Security rules usually require staff in a parliament to park in a secure area.
 

ibis

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
NotDevsSon said:
ibis said:
Hmm. How much would it cost to make a deal with somewhere like the Stephen's Green Centre? A million a year?
a) There are not enough spare places. If they took the green centre places, there would complaints from drivers about Oireachtas staff getting priority and taking 'their' places.
b) The gardai would raise security concerns about Oireachtas staff parking in a non-secure area. Security rules usually require staff in a parliament to park in a secure area.
Hmm. My recollection is that before they tarmacked the lawns, people parked on Merrion Square - and that the capacity of all the City Centre car parks is several tens of thousands of spaces. Again, my recollection is that the carpark was actually created when they brought in, or tightened up, the rules on parking spaces in 2000. Might have been the BIK changes.
 

NotDevsSon

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
174
ibis said:
NotDevsSon said:
ibis said:
Hmm. How much would it cost to make a deal with somewhere like the Stephen's Green Centre? A million a year?
a) There are not enough spare places. If they took the green centre places, there would complaints from drivers about Oireachtas staff getting priority and taking 'their' places.
b) The gardai would raise security concerns about Oireachtas staff parking in a non-secure area. Security rules usually require staff in a parliament to park in a secure area.
Hmm. My recollection is that before they tarmacked the lawns, people parked on Merrion Square - and that the capacity of all the City Centre car parks is several tens of thousands of spaces. Again, my recollection is that the carpark was actually created when they brought in, or tightened up, the rules on parking spaces in 2000. Might have been the BIK changes.
The main reason for the tarmacking was that they needed to free space in the previous parking area to allow access to the building site where they built the new extension. Unfortunately by the time they had finished the extension, the number of staff in Leinster House had rocketed, as had the number of journalists, etc. So the 'old' spaces when they became available again were no longer enough to accommodate the new staff. it is a shame to see the historic lawn tarmacked over, but other than they build an underground car park, what was a temporary car park looks like becoming permanent. :cry:

In addition, post 9/11, security considerations ruled out parliamentary staff parking in a non-secure area. There was always a risk of someone, political staff, a guard, or a cleaner, having a bomb attached to their car as bombers couldn't get access to the Leinster House complex itself. The murder of a parliamentary staff member would have gotten major coverage and caused a security scare.
 

ibis

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Joined
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Messages
12,359
D.Harry said:
Special Conservation Area?
Is that a bit like the Special Area of Conservation in Rossport that Shell are building a refinery complex on?

I rather enjoyed Noel's stick-it-to-the-man approach.
He saw an opportunity and he took it - left a lot of red faces in his wake.
Many of them his own. The rest would be those who voted for him, but that's not too many, of course.
 

ibis

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
NotDevsSon said:
ibis said:
NotDevsSon said:
ibis said:
Hmm. How much would it cost to make a deal with somewhere like the Stephen's Green Centre? A million a year?
a) There are not enough spare places. If they took the green centre places, there would complaints from drivers about Oireachtas staff getting priority and taking 'their' places.
b) The gardai would raise security concerns about Oireachtas staff parking in a non-secure area. Security rules usually require staff in a parliament to park in a secure area.
Hmm. My recollection is that before they tarmacked the lawns, people parked on Merrion Square - and that the capacity of all the City Centre car parks is several tens of thousands of spaces. Again, my recollection is that the carpark was actually created when they brought in, or tightened up, the rules on parking spaces in 2000. Might have been the BIK changes.
The main reason for the tarmacking was that they needed to free space in the previous parking area to allow access to the building site where they built the new extension. Unfortunately by the time they had finished the extension, the number of staff in Leinster House had rocketed, as had the number of journalists, etc. So the 'old' spaces when they became available again were no longer enough to accommodate the new staff. it is a shame to see the historic lawn tarmacked over, but other than they build an underground car park, what was a temporary car park looks like becoming permanent. :cry:

In addition, post 9/11, security considerations ruled out parliamentary staff parking in a non-secure area. There was always a risk of someone, political staff, a guard, or a cleaner, having a bomb attached to their car as bombers couldn't get access to the Leinster House complex itself. The murder of a parliamentary staff member would have gotten major coverage and caused a security scare.
As usual, I discount the whole 9/11 thing - it certainly didn't represent any kind of deterioration in the Irish security situation! I must track down the changes I remember thinking relevant at the time.
 

TheBear

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Messages
234
<Mod>Moved to the Dublin forum.</Mod>
 

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