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De Valera Father was Cuban?

padraig

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A Boston based American TV channel WGBH claims that dev's father was not a Spanish Businessman as believed but that he originated in a rural province of Cuba, WGBH say they have copies of dev seniors Baptismal, first comminion and confirmation certificates from the Mantanza province of Cuba. The channel plans to send a TV crew to cuba next year to try to prove their claims.

source: Article in the British based 'Irish Post' 26 Nov 2005
 


drjimryan

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Aug 20, 2005
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Exaclty Joe.....I knew it all along....

Only thing though..................and I have read the Bible......how did they turn Bacardi into Bass?

Oh...while i'm on.....any views on who the 'THIRD' Socialist is......

Is he your mate? or more high profile?

or

is it Conor Lenihan?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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With an Irish mother so he was still Irish. Just making sure the above is not used as an argument to overturn the Citizenship referendum. :wink:
 

morryah

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padraig said:
A Boston based American TV channel WGBH claims that dev's father was not a Spanish Businessman as believed but that he originated in a rural province of Cuba,

Wikipedia has him already down as a 'Spanish-Cuban settler and sculptor' so presumably the Spanish businessman story is not 'as believed'. as they think.
 

Rocky

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morryah said:
padraig said:
A Boston based American TV channel WGBH claims that dev's father was not a Spanish Businessman as believed but that he originated in a rural province of Cuba,

Wikipedia has him already down as a 'Spanish-Cuban settler and sculptor' so presumably the Spanish businessman story is not 'as believed'. as they think.
According to Tim Pat Coogan's biography he was Spanish, I can't remember what job though. He also claims using a decent amount of evidence that Dev's parents weren't married. Which is ironic considering Dev’s actions concerning things like that.
 

morryah

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Rocky said:
morryah said:
padraig said:
A Boston based American TV channel WGBH claims that dev's father was not a Spanish Businessman as believed but that he originated in a rural province of Cuba,

Wikipedia has him already down as a 'Spanish-Cuban settler and sculptor' so presumably the Spanish businessman story is not 'as believed'. as they think.
According to Tim Pat Coogan's biography he was Spanish, I can't remember what job though. He also claims using a decent amount of evidence that Dev's parents weren't married. Which is ironic considering Dev’s actions concerning things like that.
maybe the term 'hispanic' wasn't yet in use to describe Spanish-speaking immigrants to NYC....
 

MacCoise

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anyone ever the story about Dev being related to Che Guevara?
 

Trojanhorse

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Shame on RTE for not touching this project!! Though they will probably end up spending a fortune of our money buying it off whatever TV channel made it.
 

the_innocent_one

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Didn't Che Guevara have a bit of Irish blood in him?

Wasn't his last name Lynch?

Maybe one of Jack's ancestors did a bit of wandering?
 

Príomh Aire

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If anyone has read TP Coogan's book on Dev they will find substantial evidence that Dev was the bastard son of a Clare landlord. When it was found out Dev's mother was pregnant she was shipped off to America
 

morryah

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Príomh Aire said:
If anyone has read TP Coogan's book on Dev they will find substantial evidence that Dev was the b****** son of a Clare landlord. When it was found out Dev's mother was pregnant she was shipped off to America
How long was she in Amerikay before baby born?
 

Príomh Aire

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It is said that DeValera had 3 different birth certs a fact he tried to cover up. Why would he have three different birth certs, something to hide maybe?
 

thegeneral

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Príomh Aire said:
It is said that DeValera had 3 different birth certs a fact he tried to cover up. Why would he have three different birth certs, something to hide maybe?
"It is said" :roll: Horse Manure and plenty of it. People quoting Tim Pat Coogan as a supposedly independent source on the subject of Éamon de Valera is like quoting Ruairí O'Bradaigh about Gerry Adams.

Coogan's "research" goes something along the lines of De Valera's dad's birth cert hasn't been found therefore he wasn't born. The fact that there is not death cert for de Valera's father either hardly means the man is not dead.

Juan Vivion de Valera was Dev's father. Had Dev been illegitimate I sincerely doubt that he would have taken the name of his father as it was not the custom of the time. I also doubt that he would have named his first born son Vivion, that's Major Vivion de Valera, after him. I also sincerely doubt that the de Valera family in Spain in the 60s-70s, during Franco's era would have presented him with a plaque of the family crest were they not happy with the "legitimacy" of Dev's birth.

I would recommend Terry de Valera's "A Memoir", published in 2004 as a good stocking filler for anyone who wants to learn some facts about de Valera and to clear up this nonsense regarding De Valera's origins. Martin Mansergh engaged in a good letters exchange in the Irish Times last January with Coogan on this very topic.

These slurs were first raised in the American Press after the Treaty was signed. Robert Briscoe's For the Life of Me quotes the actual text along the lines "while it may surprise many Irish-Americans that President de Valera is opposing the Treaty it must be remembered that he comes for the domestic service class and this must be born in mind while listening to him in this regard."

Accusations along these lines were also thrown at de Valera during the Treaty debates by Sean Milroy and Michael Staines. They persisted throughout the time of Cumann na nGaedheal and Fine Gael who referred to dev as "a Spanish ringmaster" "a Spanish Jew", during their Blueshirt phase, and "a Spanish bastard" at different election rallies. They have been rebutted yet still persist.

This is one area of history where I have to say I am ashamed by the majority of my fellow countrymen and women who fail to realise that this stuff about his legitimacy is just another part of the ongoing onslaught to airbrush de Valera's achievements in politics both in Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil, and denigrate him, while at the same time deifying Collins at his expense under the false premise that they disliked each other.
 

morryah

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Per TP Coogan:

http://www.generalmichaelcollins.com/Ph ... alera.html


On the marriage Dr Mansergh wrote: "Opponents have long insinu-ated doubts about the legitimacy of deValera's birth and the authenticity of his parents' marriage, though few children born out of wedlock were registered in their father's name." Taking the registration issue first: Initially de Valera was not registered in his father's name. The state of New York records contain two de Valera birth certificates. The first, registered on November 10th, 1882, gives his name as George de Valero.The second was marked "corrected" on June 30th, 1916, by de Valera's mother, the former Catherine Coll, who by then had married a Charles Wheelwright and was attempting to prove de Valera's American citizenship to save him from a firing squad. It is in this certificate that the first name is given as Edward and the surname as de Valera, and by then, of course, the man claimed to be his father, one Vivion de Valera, was long dead.

De Valera was born at the Nursery and Child's Hospital, Lex-ington Avenue, New York, a home for destitute orphans and aban-doned children on October 14th, 1882. He was baptised on December 3rd, in nearby St Agnes's Church, his father's first name being given as Vivian, his surname as De Valeros, his own first name as Edward. Almost 50 years later Vivion de Valera, de Valera's eldest son, vis-ited St Agnes's and, in an unusual courtesy, was given permission to alter the certificate in his own hand writing so that it now reads Vivion, de Valera and Eamon.

De Valera's official biography (Longford/O'Neill, Hutchinson, London, 1970) states that his parents were married at St Patrick's in Greenville, New Jersey, on September 19th, 1881. I went to Greenville and on checking the parish records, discovered there was no record of any Coll - deValera wedding either at this church or any church in the vicinity in a period of 12 years from 1875 to 1887. Nor did a check on the record of civil marriages for the period show such a wedding.
 

Príomh Aire

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DeValera

Yeah, it was just to cement the cover up, pretty convenient that DeV's so called father died young an easy target for a pregnant girl who is ashamed to tell her son who his real father is.
 

thegeneral

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Mansergh replied to that piece written by Coogan in the letters section of the Irish Times a week after that "opinion" piece. He rebuts all of Coogan's claims. Coogan never responded. January-February 05 I think.
 

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