Dean Lyons Garda - whistleblower or spinner?

Lefournier

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
I started a thread some weeks about about the Dean Lyons scandal and Robert McNulty, the Garda who leaked information to the Evening Herald. The thread was blocked and, despite my best efforts, no-one on this website would explain why, which is more than ironic in a thread about news management and manipulation:(

http://www.politics.ie/justice/40556-dean-lyons-accountability.html

Back in Nov. 2007, Robert McNulty, formerly of Store Street and Bridewell garda stations, was sent forward for trial, charged with disclosing the contents of a draft report of George Birmingham's Commission of Investigation. McNulty features heavily in the report as one of Dean Lyons interrogators.

In Feb. 2008, the Indo reported that
Judge Martin Nolan at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court set a trial date in December and remanded [McNulty] on continuing bail.
Further delays for air passengers - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

Does anyone know if this case will ever come to trial? It is two and half years since the alleged leak and almost twelve years (!) since Dean Lyons was wrongly charged with a double murder.

Naturally, the senior Gardai at the centre of this scandal were duly promoted but I thought at least the law would apply to a leaker:p
 


Kev408

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,026
Actually, there were two Gardai promoted, both of whom took the 'confession' from Lyons. But really, this a done deal. The parents were given an apology and it's all over. The actual killer, Mark Nash, is residing happily in Castlerea Prison. He wants to go back to the UK, God love him.

Anyway, this is yet another example of stuff that happened when we were too rich to give a damn.
 
Last edited:

Lefournier

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
Anyway, this is yet another example of stuff that happened when we were too rich to give a damn.
You may be right, Kev, but this has nothing to do with money and everything to do with humanity and integrity. All too often, things are swept under the carpet in Ireland and I have been raising this issue to try to keep alive a sense of justice. The horrendous case of Jerry McGrath convicted last week of attempted murder of a five year old girl:mad: while out on bail is a reminder of the dangers here (responsiblity in this case rests not with the Garda but with Judge O'Donnell)

On reading the Bermingham Report, I realise that it has the style of the Stardust Report and the Kerry Babies report. Plenty of verbiage leaving an escape hatch for the powerful i.e. the bizarre fact that Dean Lyons made a statement filled with details of murders which he knew nothing about could be explained by Dean Lyons picking up details of the murders from Garda questioning. This is utterly implausible but, like the Stardust and Kerry Baby cases, the report served a purpose i.e. getting the State off the hook.

The question now is whether anybody will answer for this?
 

powderfinger

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
3,350
You may be right, Kev, but this has nothing to do with money and everything to do with humanity and integrity. All too often, things are swept under the carpet in Ireland and I have been raising this issue to try to keep alive a sense of justice. The horrendous case of Jerry McGrath convicted last week of attempted murder of a five year old girl:mad: while out on bail is a reminder of the dangers here (responsiblity in this case rests not with the Garda but with Judge O'Donnell)

On reading the Bermingham Report, I realise that it has the style of the Stardust Report and the Kerry Babies report. Plenty of verbiage leaving an escape hatch for the powerful i.e. the bizarre fact that Dean Lyons made a statement filled with details of murders which he knew nothing about could be explained by Dean Lyons picking up details of the murders from Garda questioning. This is utterly implausible but, like the Stardust and Kerry Baby cases, the report served a purpose i.e. getting the State off the hook.

The question now is whether anybody will answer for this?
Lefourniere,you are right to raise this question.
For some strange reason I read the Bermingham Report last year.It is quite readable and does render a myriad of questions which arise from George Berminghams report following on from an internal Garda inquiry into the tragic tale of Dean Lyons r.i.p.
 

Lefournier

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
Lefourniere,you are right to raise this question.
For some strange reason I read the Bermingham Report last year.It is quite readable and does render a myriad of questions which arise from George Berminghams report following on from an internal Garda inquiry into the tragic tale of Dean Lyons r.i.p.
The family were not happy with the Bermingham Report and were probably less than impressed when George was appointed to the High Court less than a year later.

I don't want this question swept under the carpet and I was very unimpressed when the earlier thread was locked for no apparent reason. I'm keeping a watch for the McNulty case. If it doesn't appear before the courts by Easter, it'll be time for serious questions.
 

Kev408

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,026
The family were not happy with the Bermingham Report and were probably less than impressed when George was appointed to the High Court less than a year later.

I don't want this question swept under the carpet and I was very unimpressed when the earlier thread was locked for no apparent reason. I'm keeping a watch for the McNulty case. If it doesn't appear before the courts by Easter, it'll be time for serious questions.
No-one gives a damn - it's that simple. I have brought up this case on several occasions (on p.ie) but very few people seem interested by flagrant injustice. The fact that it starts at the top seems to be eluding those who claim corruption at the highest levels.
 

perprojustice

Active member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
122
Very funny indeed that the other thread was closed. Did you get any pm telling you why?
Going back through the other thread I came across this post by Candi

"You have a good grasp of what happens.
Just read the thread on the garda who stopped John ODonoghue here Garda involved in Ceann Comhairle speed check has disciplinary proceedings quashed
I believe-but I am subject to correction as I have not delved too much into this case...yet-that Detective Sergeant Robert McNulty was involved in this investigation and he expressed doubts all along about Dean Lyons but he was not listened to by those who saw promotion in a conviction.
Perhaps he had attempted to have this aired in the media before the 'commission of Investigation' was commenced. In any event he would have been at the commission of investigation hearing and it is alleged that he gave the outcome of the investigation to the media some three weeks before it was released by the commission.
When the commission of investigation Act 2004 was brought into being it came with serious penalties for anyone betraying the secrecy of the content and or result of any investigation and it is under this legislation that he is being done.
I do know that the book of evidence was served on him. It will be interesting to see what comes out if the case is followed through with."

and this link

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcdowell-denies-ordering-journalists-arrest-56443.html
 

Lefournier

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
Despite various efforts to get an explanation from the Mod. who closed the earlier thread, none was forthcoming.

I have set up a Google News Alert for the McNulty case. If it doesn't proceed by Easter, it will be time for Dail questions.

I think the Evening Herald journalist, Mick McCaffrey, was never charged. If he was, the case would take on a very different character and freedom of the press would come to the fore.
 

perprojustice

Active member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
122
Despite various efforts to get an explanation from the Mod. who closed the earlier thread, none was forthcoming.

I have set up a Google News Alert for the McNulty case. If it doesn't proceed by Easter, it will be time for Dail questions.

I think the Evening Herald journalist, Mick McCaffrey, was never charged. If he was, the case would take on a very different character and freedom of the press would come to the fore.
Would you consider that the Dail questions should take the line that we may not have been made privy to the findings if it was not for the alleged actions of McNulty, or do you consider that the Dail should debate the non prosecution of the Garda as a perversion of the course of justice.

Having said that we have never been made privy to the full report.

Was the Garda trying to remedy that part of the affair?
 

candi

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
33
Despite various efforts to get an explanation from the Mod. who closed the earlier thread, none was forthcoming.

I have set up a Google News Alert for the McNulty case. If it doesn't proceed by Easter, it will be time for Dail questions.

I think the Evening Herald journalist, Mick McCaffrey, was never charged. If he was, the case would take on a very different character and freedom of the press would come to the fore.
Have you gone to ground on this thread?

I just noticed that the thread on the Garda who stopped John O'Donoghue speeding has been removed. With almost 10000 viewings.

What is happening to this forum.
 

Lefournier

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
We were waiting almost a year for the case against Detective Sergeant McNulty to come to court but it now seems that we won't hear the case because he pleaded guilty today at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to the charge that he disclosed the contents of the draft Bermingham report into the Dean Lyons case.

I notice the media report all mention that he is aged 50. Not coincidental. I assume we will see get, at most, a suspended sentence and he will retire thereafter on full pension. Deal done and the truth buried as deeply as possible.:mad:

There are two new threads on this case today. It would help if posters ran a search before starting threads which then start asking questions about this case.
 

perprojustice

Active member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
122
We were waiting almost a year for the case against Detective Sergeant McNulty to come to court but it now seems that we won't hear the case because he pleaded guilty today at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to the charge that he disclosed the contents of the draft Bermingham report into the Dean Lyons case.

I notice the media report all mention that he is aged 50. Not coincidental. I assume we will see get, at most, a suspended sentence and he will retire thereafter on full pension. Deal done and the truth buried as deeply as possible.:mad:

There are two new threads on this case today. It would help if posters ran a search before starting threads which then start asking questions about this case.
Yes there is one new thread but I cannot find a second. Multiplr threads fragment the posts.

I think you left this slip too far down the listings to be found. I see that on 11th March a poster expressed concern that you were letting the thread lapse.
 

cavok

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
64
Website
www.politics.ie
Have you gone to ground on this thread?

I just noticed that the thread on the Garda who stopped John O'Donoghue speeding has been removed. With almost 10000 viewings.

What is happening to this forum.
pressure from the Gombeenarchy?
 

perprojustice

Active member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
122
We were waiting almost a year for the case against Detective Sergeant McNulty to come to court but it now seems that we won't hear the case because he pleaded guilty today at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to the charge that he disclosed the contents of the draft Bermingham report into the Dean Lyons case.

I notice the media report all mention that he is aged 50. Not coincidental. I assume we will see get, at most, a suspended sentence and he will retire thereafter on full pension. Deal done and the truth buried as deeply as possible.:mad:

There are two new threads on this case today. It would help if posters ran a search before starting threads which then start asking questions about this case.
He has so far paid an awful price for ensuring that the full report was released. It is unfair to expect him to continue with his protestations with all the associated costs of defending the case.

As we are outraged persons why do we not contact the authorities and demand an investigation. It is not good enough to be at all times "the hurler on the ditch"
 

Lefournier

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
He has so far paid an awful price for ensuring that the full report was released. It is unfair to expect him to continue with his protestations with all the associated costs of defending the case.

As we are outraged persons why do we not contact the authorities and demand an investigation. It is not good enough to be at all times "the hurler on the ditch"
The problem is that there was an investigation (Bermingham) which bizarrely exonerated the Gardai on the major charge (stitching up Dean Lyons) but criticised them on minor points (record keeping, recording interviews).

McNulty did the right thing by alerting his superiors to concerns about Dean Lyons reliability but at this stage I think he has made his peace with the powers that be and will be happy to walk away with a full pension.

The victims of Mark Nash have paid the ultimate price for the Garda's failures. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear from the Doyle family shorly.
 

Lefournier

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
No surprises then: a suspended sentence for McNulty and he takes early retirement minus 5,000 Euro from his lump sum. On the whole, I'm inclined to believe he was a whistleblower who became overly concerned with his own reputation i.e. he couldn't resist playing the media game.

The real victims here are forgotten. Even if you accept the Birmingham Report line (i.e. that Dean Lyons concocted a credible confession on his own out of stuff he heard in the Garda Station, which I find implausible), there was a terrible failure by the Gardai. They accepted this confession at face value when they knew that the Grangegorman killings were the work of an extremely violent serial killer. McNulty raised questions about Dean Lyons confession but no-one higher up wanted to know because Dean Lyons was a convenient scapegoat.

As a result, Catherine and Carl Doyle, were massacred by Mark Nash in Roscommon some weeks after he had committed the Grangegorman murders. Most of the media don't even mention the Roscommon murders. I must admit that, even if Mark Nash had been caught for the Grangegorman murders, he would probably have made bail like Gerald Barry before he murdered Manuela Riedo but at least there would be some public knowledge about his nature before he met up with the Doyle family.
Suspended term, €5,000 fine for ex-garda - The Irish Times - Thu, Jul 30, 2009


If the case against McNulty was anything other than an attempt to punish a whistleblower, the journalist would have been prosecuted alongside McNulty but I think the journalist, Mick McCaffrey of the Evening Herald , was never even charged. If he was, the case would take on a very different character and freedom of the press would come to the fore.

The Herald has an editorial pointing to the double standards here:
There's one law for McDowell, another for us - Comment, Opinion - Herald.ie
 

powderfinger

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
3,350
No surprises then: a suspended sentence for McNulty and he takes early retirement minus 5,000 Euro from his lump sum. On the whole, I'm inclined to believe he was a whistleblower who became overly concerned with his own reputation i.e. he couldn't resist playing the media game.

The real victims here are forgotten. Even if you accept the Birmingham Report line (i.e. that Dean Lyons concocted a credible confession on his own out of stuff he heard in the Garda Station, which I find implausible), there was a terrible failure by the Gardai. They accepted this confession at face value when they knew that the Grangegorman killings were the work of an extremely violent serial killer. McNulty raised questions about Dean Lyons confession but no-one higher up wanted to know because Dean Lyons was a convenient scapegoat.

As a result, Catherine and Carl Doyle, were massacred by Mark Nash in Roscommon some weeks after he had committed the Grangegorman murders. Most of the media don't even mention the Roscommon murders. I must admit that, even if Mark Nash had been caught for the Grangegorman murders, he would probably have made bail like Gerald Barry before he murdered Manuela Riedo but at least there would be some public knowledge about his nature before he met up with the Doyle family.
Suspended term, €5,000 fine for ex-garda - The Irish Times - Thu, Jul 30, 2009


If the case against McNulty was anything other than an attempt to punish a whistleblower, the journalist would have been prosecuted alongside McNulty but I think the journalist, Mick McCaffrey of the Evening Herald , was never even charged. If he was, the case would take on a very different character and freedom of the press would come to the fore.

The Herald has an editorial pointing to the double standards here:
There's one law for McDowell, another for us - Comment, Opinion - Herald.ie
Very well put Lefourniere.
A point that has been overlooked.Indeed from reading the Bermingham Report ,it is evident that there were other involved Gardaí,who held stronger convictions than McNulty,as to the distinct unreality of any hand,act,or part played by Dean Lyons in the gruesome butcherings of Sylvia Shields and Mary Callinan at Orchard View,Grangegorman in March 1997.
How did such divergent viewpoints on the culpability of Dean Lyons co-exist in this murder investigation?
 

blanket

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
115
Have you gone to ground on this thread?

I just noticed that the thread on the Garda who stopped John O'Donoghue speeding has been removed. With almost 10000 viewings.

What is happening to this forum.
Was it ever established why that thread was removed?

I thought the servers were moved abroad to avoid the site owner being sued, if that was the reason.
 

patslatt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,637
The reason why?

Very well put Lefourniere.
A point that has been overlooked.Indeed from reading the Bermingham Report ,it is evident that there were other involved Gardaí,who held stronger convictions than McNulty,as to the distinct unreality of any hand,act,or part played by Dean Lyons in the gruesome butcherings of Sylvia Shields and Mary Callinan at Orchard View,Grangegorman in March 1997.
How did such divergent viewpoints on the culpability of Dean Lyons co-exist in this murder investigation?
There was a documentary on Discovery channel about a criminal law professor in New York who gets his students to examine cases of prisoners who make credible claims that they were wrongly convicted. I got the impression that when wrong convictions were overturned,the prosecutors,police and judges who were involved in the original trials never suffered a reprimand or a demotion. This form of impunity seems to be universal to all countries' justice systems,in my opinion-possibly for a good reason.

Suppose a precedent were set whereby a police detective were found guilty of exercising extremely biased judgement in a serious criminal case,with a suspicion that he was motivated by a desire for promotion. Such a precedent could cause grave problems for the courts. All defendants could claim that the accusations against them were biased by the desire for promotions. The interrogation techniques used by detectives which often validly rely on cunning, deception and psychologically intimidation,would become legally questionable and dubious. Only the gentlest interrogations might be allowed,with the defendants' solicitors present at all times.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top