Death announced of Darcus Howe

GDPR

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Even 70 years ago as a child, I thought the teaching "outside the Church (Roman Catholic, of course) there is no salvation" was a bit OTT. In my mature olds age, I know it is not just OTT but ridiculous; just like the idea that an innocent unbaptised baby would stay in Limbo and much worse,could not -and wasn't - buried in sacred ground; just as a bishop's ruling that anyone who went to a certain dancing venue committed a mortal sin by just being there; just as, just as a whole pile of similar Ráiméis.

Field Marshall, if you're serious, get a grip and realise that God cannot be a small-minded bigot. He's no longer behind the door with a hammer to belt every wrong-doer . He has to be a God of Love - without the hammer.
Okay he has damned Eastern Catholics to hell seemingly which the most hard line Feeneyite which tremble at doing so.

However while I definitely believe that the Byzantine and Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox can be saved and even reach Holiness (they of course have valid Sacraments and so are part of the Church in many ways), and while I hope that God will Mercy on genuinely Believing Protestants those who have rejected Christ out and out, how can they be saved by Him? They have made their choice- no one is forcing Freemasons to be continue being Freemasons and Quakers to still be Quakers. They are so because they have rejected God's Love, sided with His principle enemy and so will have a share in that enemy's lot.
 


The Field Marshal

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Even 70 years ago as a child, I thought the teaching "outside the Church (Roman Catholic, of course) there is no salvation" was a bit OTT. In my mature olds age, I know it is not just OTT but ridiculous; just like the idea that an innocent unbaptised baby would stay in Limbo and much worse,could not -and wasn't - buried in sacred ground; just as a bishop's ruling that anyone who went to a certain dancing venue committed a mortal sin by just being there; just as, just as a whole pile of similar Ráiméis.

Field Marshall, if you're serious, get a grip and realise that God cannot be a small-minded bigot. He's no longer behind the door with a hammer to belt every wrong-doer . He has to be a God of Love - without the hammer.
Er, you can not come on this forum and define what God is.

God, being infinite, can not be defined.

The catholic church was instituted by God.

Its core de fide teaching remains that membership is necessary for salvation.

It does not say that salvation is impossible for non members.

But it is clear that salvation for non catholics is deemed exceptionally difficult.
 

GDPR

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Field Marshall, if you're serious, get a grip and realise that God cannot be a small-minded bigot. He's no longer behind the door with a hammer to belt every wrong-doer . He has to be a God of Love - without the hammer.
God has called humanity into his Deifying Love; not a vague floating around the clouds and "Happiness". That is what He has created us for and if we are not worthy of it than the dignity He created us with demands nothing but the lake of fire. I don't think that anyone can really believe in hell unless they grasped what exactly going to Heaven means.
 

The Field Marshal

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God has called humanity into his Deifying Love; not a vague floating around the clouds and "Happiness". That is what He has created us for and if we are not worthy of it than the dignity He created us with demands nothing but the lake of fire. I don't think that anyone can really believe in hell unless they grasped what exactly going to Heaven means.
That, s a form of Jansensism and heretical.

People will only be condemned to Hell for grave persistent and unrepentent mortal sins.
 

Cruimh

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Even 70 years ago as a child, I thought the teaching "outside the Church (Roman Catholic, of course) there is no salvation" was a bit OTT. In my mature olds age, I know it is not just OTT but ridiculous; just like the idea that an innocent unbaptised baby would stay in Limbo and much worse,could not -and wasn't - buried in sacred ground; just as a bishop's ruling that anyone who went to a certain dancing venue committed a mortal sin by just being there; just as, just as a whole pile of similar Ráiméis.

Field Marshall, if you're serious, get a grip and realise that God cannot be a small-minded bigot. He's no longer behind the door with a hammer to belt every wrong-doer . He has to be a God of Love - without the hammer.
Shannon - a long time ago when TFM was in serious mode - he is being playful here - I put him on the spot with his "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" by asking him if the recently sainted Mary McKillop had died during the time she was (wrongfully) excommunicated would she have been damned .... obviously not - but she was outside the Church .....

"extra ecclesiam nulla salus" is, like confession, just another instrument of control and oppression. Like parents who tell their children if they misbehave then Santa won't be coming down the chimney.
 

The Field Marshal

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There is no evidence that this statement contains any veracity.


But there is.
You also know where that evidence subsists.
I have been through this with you before.

You are not learning .


You should be made to clean Rio Ferdinand's boots for 10 weeks.
When "professional" footballers go before their maker they will be asked what did you do with your life.

Most will only be able will to say I spent it kicking a round object around a field being admired by screaming morons most of whom paid a fortune to see me [and btw most of whom refused to give a penny to the beggar sitting at the entrance gate].

Not much to say for a mans entire life is it?
 

dalyp

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Shannon - a long time ago when TFM was in serious mode - he is being playful here - I put him on the spot with his "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" by asking him if the recently sainted Mary McKillop had died during the time she was (wrongfully) excommunicated would she have been damned .... obviously not - but she was outside the Church .....

"religion is just another instrument of control and oppression. Like parents who tell their children if they misbehave then Santa won't be coming down the chimney.
fixed
 

GDPR

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Outside the Church there is No Salvation; because the Church is Salvation. It is what the Ark once was in a much more serious and grave sense. Anyone who is saved is so because they were essentially made at some stage part of the Church which is the Body of the Christ and the ultimate reason and explanation of the cosmos. To see the Church as being simply the Hierarchy is commit a fatal flaw. To be part of the Church is to have been rescued from the outer darkness and as Christ Himself said many condemn themselves by clinging to that darkness.
 

dalyp

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Darcus was the son of a protestant vicar.

Unless he converted to roman catholicism then his chances of salvation are remote.

That is what the phrase "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" means.


I hope you can understand that because it is quite important in the grand scheme of things.
Throwing is a few words of a dead language does not stenghen your argument - no more than a cupla focail would make me believe in the banshee
 

GDPR

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Shannon - a long time ago when TFM was in serious mode - he is being playful here - I put him on the spot with his "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" by asking him if the recently sainted Mary McKillop had died during the time she was (wrongfully) excommunicated would she have been damned .... obviously not - but she was outside the Church .....

"extra ecclesiam nulla salus" is, like confession, just another instrument of control and oppression. Like parents who tell their children if they misbehave then Santa won't be coming down the chimney.
Wrongful ex-communications don't count as you well know.

She might have been outside the Church as Organization though that is doubtful in the extreme but she was not outside the Church as Mystical Organism.

Quakers though as you also know along with the various types of Freemasons do go to the lake of fire. Those who wilfully reject Christ and His transforming Power, Love and Discipline cannot expect them once they cross over.
 

The Field Marshal

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Throwing is a few words of a dead language does not stenghen your argument - no more than a cupla focail would make me believe in the banshee
Throwing in your ignorance of common idioms and well known phrases just shows you up as a being uneducated and backward.
 

dalyp

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Throwing in your ignorance of common idioms and well known phrases just shows you up as a being uneducated and backward.
Nice coming from the guy who spends his time defending the existence of heaven and hell, as for my ignorance of church idioms I can live with that - nothing more than the stinking remnants of a tool used to intimidate the proletariat who were happy enough to spout some sh1t they didn't even understand on the instruction of a church which despised them while teaching about a god which does not exist.
 
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The Field Marshal

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Nice coming from the guy who spends his time defending the existence of heaven and hell
Defending?

Both heaven and Hell are realities.

Its your, not my problem, if you chose to freely reject those realities.

But remember and be warned , you can not chose the consequences of any such rejection.
 

GDPR

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What is Heaven? Catholicism in all it's Glory finally unveiled as much as created beings can cope with it. For those who hated Catholicism on this earth Heaven would be worse than hell.
 

ManUnited

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Defending?

Both heaven and Hell are realities.

Its your, not my problem, if you chose to freely reject those realities.

But remember and be warned , you can not chose the consequences of any such rejection.
Seems a bit harsh. God gives us free will and then throws us in a lake of fire for using it. What happened to the all loving part of his C.V.?
 

dalyp

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Defending?

Both heaven and Hell are realities.

Its your, not my problem, if you chose to freely reject those realities.

But remember and be warned , you can not chose the consequences of any such rejection.
Fair enough your just having some fun now - but there are many out there who still believe this sh!t . Creationists make up a larger percentage of the US population
 

The Field Marshal

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Seems a bit harsh. God gives us free will and then throws us in a lake of fire for using it. What happened to the all loving part of his C.V.?
Not in the least.

Hell is an inevitable consequence of free will.

Persons are completely free to accept or to reject God.

Those who freely and finally reject God must have somewhere to go to.

That place is called Hell.
 

ManUnited

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Not in the least.

Hell is an inevitable consequence of free will.

Persons are completely free to accept or to reject God.

Those who freely and finally reject God must have somewhere to go to.

That place is called Hell.
Phew.. so no lake of fire then? just go live over there. Seems much fairer.
 

The Field Marshal

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Fair enough your just having some fun now - but there are many out there who still believe this sh!t . Creationists make up a larger percentage of the US population
Having fun?

Do you really think I find the notion of eternal unhappiness fun?

You are either serious about this topic or you are not.

I am being deadly serious and I mean everything I say.

The four last things you will ever know about when you die are as follows.

Death
Judgement
Heaven
Hell
 


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