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Death by one's own hand - prevalence in Ireland.


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Oct 8, 2011
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First for anyone in dire strife who has found this thread through a Google search:

Samaritans branches in Ireland | Samaritans

I hae opened this thread in the hope that the thread reporting the tragic suicide of Shannon Gallagher can be kept clear.

I am also challenging The Field Marshall for the third time to provide stats on his assertion that suicide rates have risen in Ireland and that this is a direct result of a move away from Catholicism.
 

captainwillard

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Mar 2, 2010
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2,897
First for anyone in dire strife who has found this thread through a Google search:

Samaritans branches in Ireland | Samaritans

I hae opened this thread in the hope that the thread reporting the tragic suicide of Shannon Gallagher can be kept clear.

I am also challenging The Field Marshall for the third time to provide stats on his assertion that suicide rates have risen in Ireland and that this is a direct result of a move away from Catholicism.
oh grow up. Stop scoring points for goodness sake.
 
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oh grow up. Stop scoring points for goodness sake.
I asked specific questions which were answered only be repetitions of the assertions.

I took things to another thread in order to change the discussion from the specific to the general.

Since it would appear that you'd prefer not to participate feel free not to click on the thread.
 

Rural

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Apr 28, 2007
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27,927
It seems to average out at two a day, unfortunately. The under 18s seem to get publicised, as do the parents who kill their children and then themselves (three cases in these parts in the past few years).

It breaks a lot of hearts and the unaswerable question is "why?". I don't know the answer, just being able to talk and get things off your chest is helpful, dismissing someone by saying things like "chin up" and "you'll get over it" is unhelpful.

Depression is rampant in this country at the moment and doctors hand out pills like they are Smarties, people do not listen and I mean listen without advice at the tip of their tongue.

It has become a cruel world with confidence vampires around every corner.
 

Hitch 22

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Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
Teaching the virtues of stoicism, rationalism, determinism and materialism in schools might help. Kids should be taught that what is is and the only possibility to change things is patient practical action and nothing else. Dream if they must but dreams will never become reality without effort.

F*ck it!

[video=youtube;tH2w6Oxx0kQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ[/video]

I close my eyes
Only for a moment and the moment's gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes with curiosity

Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind

Same old song
Just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do
Crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see

(Aa aa aa)
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Oh, ho, ho

Now don't hang on
Nothin' last forever but the earth and sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy

Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
(All we are is dust in the wind)

Dust in the wind
(Everything is dust in the wind)
Everything is dust in the wind
(In the wind)

(Ooo)
(Ooo)
(Ooo)
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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Messages
11,840
If we offered more hope to our youth instead of;

a) almost zero chance of employment
b) work for free, via jobridge and WPP's
c) be specifically discriminated against, due to your age, should you need welfare support.
d) expensive emigration where you can look forward to isolation should you not have friends/family abroad
e) your future being decided by regressive thinking protectionists.
f) Further Austerity that favours the old at the expense of the young.
g) little hope of having a proper life of your own due to the greed of politicians and the PS union lobby and certain private vested interests.
h) the lack of urgency to deal with the above


etc
etc

ad infinitum...


**off to buy some rope**
 

EvotingMachine0197

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Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,629
First for anyone in dire strife who has found this thread through a Google search:

Samaritans branches in Ireland | Samaritans

I hae opened this thread in the hope that the thread reporting the tragic suicide of Shannon Gallagher can be kept clear.

I am also challenging The Field Marshall for the third time to provide stats on his assertion that suicide rates have risen in Ireland and that this is a direct result of a move away from Catholicism.
Des, you will never get anywhere with that guy for two reasons;
1. He is mentally incapable of making a distinction between a substantiated fact and his own opinion.
2. He does not understand the difference between correlation and causation.
 
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Messages
40,632
Some actual data:

http://www.nosp.ie/mortality_statistics.pdf

It doesn't make pretty reading, but there is a significant overall acceleration since suicide became legal, despite a dip in the actual year of legalisation, 1993.
The question really goes to the reliability of the stats.

I had a close friend who killed himself in 1990. Note left. No doubts at all about how died.

The decision was "misadventure".

There were many legal and societal pressures against recording "suicide" at the time. If i recall correctly, insurance and accrued pension would have been lost in his case.

There was also the stigma - something with which the RCC was involved - at the doctrinal level. In practice (full disclosure here before TFM starts foaming at the mouth),, the local Parish Priest was an unbelievable source of pragmatic support to the family and also gave an unbelievable sermon on the day of the obsequies.

Stats on suicide are very sketchy in the years up to the mid-90's.
 
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Messages
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Des, you will never get anywhere with that guy for two reasons;
1. He is mentally incapable of making a distinction between a substantiated fact and his own opinion.
2. He does not understand the difference between correlation and causation.
I just wanted to offer hims somewhere other than that thread to prove himself.
 
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Oct 8, 2011
Messages
40,632
You wanted to score a point.
Nope. But if you are so confident in your ability to divine intent and to thereby read minds, you'll be able to tell me of the three-digit number in my mind as I type.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,490
The question really goes to the reliability of the stats.

I had a close friend who killed himself in 1990. Note left. No doubts at all about how died.

The decision was "misadventure".

There were many legal and societal pressures against recording "suicide" at the time. If i recall correctly, insurance and accrued pension would have been lost in his case.

There was also the stigma - something with which the RCC was involved - at the doctrinal level. In practice (full disclosure here before TFM starts foaming at the mouth),, the local Parish Priest was an unbelievable source of pragmatic support to the family and also gave an unbelievable sermon on the day of the obsequies.

Stats on suicide are very sketchy in the years up to the mid-90's.
I agree with you absolutely.

But there are three other things to be said.

1. Irish people intending to commit suicide often went to England to do it, and did so anonymously - for example some of them would gas themselves in cheap bed-sits.

2. Some of those 'probable-suicides' that were written-off as 'misadventures' would have involved murder, but they were never properly investigated. For example, one big chunk of those murder-victims would be the innocent people killed when someone committed suicide by way of a contrived 'Road Traffic Accident'. (And that still happens today.)

3. When suicides were being disguised as 'misadventures' no proper investigations were being made about the background situation - drink, drugs, sexual abuse etc. As an example of what I mean the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne, Australia, involves a reported 40 suicides among 620 sexual abuse victims (acknowledged to the public after internal investigations by the Roman Catholic Church in Victoria). I'm just giving that as an example, and certainly RCC clerics do not have a monopoly on sex-abuse, but the civil authorities should be investigating the background to suicide, and be ready to dig deep when there are clusters of suicides.
 

TimBuckII

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Jan 21, 2008
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2,524
Twitter
Yes I am
Sadly depression is the cause here. It is depression that needs addressed before anything else.

Just like we all accept the road awareness line of 'speed kills'. We must apply this to depression too. In road accidents the focus is never on the 'impact' which kills but the focus is on what led to it. In the case of depression suicide is the impact.

Tackle the cause 'depression kills' rather than the result and we'll make more progress.
 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
Suicide is a very serious issue.

Far more serious than anybody in this thread has yet grasped. Ireland is currently in a suicide epidemic. Everybody knows of cases that have shown themselves in the last five years.

I have tried to understand what drives people to suicide. And I reckon it is a pervasive irresistable conclusion that there will be no fufillment of their ambitions and hopes. A sense of hopelessness. And it seems that we have a pervasive helplessness in our culture, at this point in time - possibly driven by many external factors. By this I mean factors that we also see in Greece (which also is in the grip of a suicide epidemic).

We even have other aspects of a culture that feels helplessness like high levels of alcohol abuse, and high levels of other substance abuse. In fact, even the compulsive binge spending in the last decade was almost suicidal (in the financial sense).

The source of a lot of the problems in Irish society, is the level of pervasive and persistent deceit. It results in people reaching the conclusion after several bouts of optimisim that life is not going to work out. That there is no hope.

Therefore a more honest public debate about "we are where we are" and about all matters of public discussion would be how I would propose addressing the suicide problem in Ireland.

Authority in Ireland programs people to be losers. So as to make them obedient. Put on the green jersey, and venerate losing. There is no sense of optimism. Just respect for banality and mediocrity, and indeed empty nonsense.

To get out of the national suicide epidemic, requires a rethinking of the issues of personal responsibility, freedom, achievement, family interdepence, human happiness.

Therefore, if there are any of you who are feeling full of despair, then please re-examine thos aspects of your life, and the also allow authority in Ireland to be responsible in large part for any deceit that caused you to fail.

And then reconstruct a way back.

Of course, that is the last thing that you will hear.
 
Last edited:

blokesbloke

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Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
If we offered more hope to our youth instead of;

a) almost zero chance of employment
b) work for free, via jobridge and WPP's
c) be specifically discriminated against, due to your age, should you need welfare support.
d) expensive emigration where you can look forward to isolation should you not have friends/family abroad
e) your future being decided by regressive thinking protectionists.
f) Further Austerity that favours the old at the expense of the young.
g) little hope of having a proper life of your own due to the greed of politicians and the PS union lobby and certain private vested interests.
h) the lack of urgency to deal with the above


etc
etc

ad infinitum...


**off to buy some rope**
I hope you don't mean that!

If you do, please contact on of the organisations already mentioned in this thread and try and talk things out.

If not, well it was apt perhaps giving the subject of the thread, but then rather tasteless perhaps for the very same reason...
 

TimBuckII

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Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
2,524
Twitter
Yes I am
Suicide is a very serious issue.

Far more serious than anybody in this thread has yet grasped. Ireland is currently in a suicide epidemic. Everybody knows of cases that have shown themselves in the last five years.

I have tried to understand what drives people to suicide. And I reckon it is a pervasive irresistable conclusion that there will be no fufillment of their ambitions and hopes. A sense of hopelessness. And it seems that we have a pervasive helplessness in our culture, at this point in time - possibly driven by many external factors. By this I mean factors that we also see in Greece (which also is in the grip of a suicide epidemic).

We even have other aspects of a culture that feels helplessness like high levels of alcohol abuse, and high levels of other substance abuse. In fact, even the compulsive binge spending in the last decade was almost suicidal (in the financial sense).

The source of a lot of the problems in Irish society, is the level of pervasive and persistent deceit. It results in people reaching the conclusion after several bouts of optimisim that life is not going to work out. That there is no hope.

Therefore a more honest public debate about "we are where we are" and about all matters of public discussion would be how I would propose addressing the suicide problem in Ireland.

Authority in Ireland programs people to be losers. So as to make them obedient. Put on the green jersey, and venerate losing. There is no sense of optimism. Just respect for pessisimism.

This is missing the point. This is a symptom of depression, treating the symptom is not the answer. Treating the disease is the answer and of course more importantly prevention.

I agree with the other points though.
 

Rural

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Apr 28, 2007
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I've been depressed for a good while now - But I know the reasons for it, it's not clinical, just outside factors.
 

gerhard dengler

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Feb 3, 2011
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Life will always bring up and downs.

I think what is missing in modern society is, in many cases, a failure to cope with things when they're not going your way.

Committing suicide is not an answer to any problem in my view.

I know far too many people who have lost a sibling, parent or child through suicide and I can say hand on heart that these people are going through hell because their sibling, parent or child took their own life.

And before anyone here thinks that I am judging those who have committed suicide, I'm not.
 
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