Death of an "immortal" : Simone Veil

petaljam

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Something of an oxymoron, but it's the title given to honorary members of l'Academie Française, in this case Simone Veil, possibly the most influential French woman since Marie Curie, certainly the most influential in French political life, who has died at the age of 89. She would have been 90 in July.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Veil

She is of course most famous for having been the Minister for Health and Social Affairs who legalized abortion, a controversial act which made her the target of death threats and even attacks : among other things, her husband's car was vandalized and covered in Nazi crosses, an accusation that was particularly shocking since she was herself a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau, where she saw her mother die. Her father and brother also died, having been separated from the rest of the family shortly after their arrest and last seen en route to Lithuania.

Her determination to improve women's lives (she spent most of her working life as a judge and in the Ministry for Justice) was only one part of what she tried to achieve in her life. In fact it's a measure of what an extraordinary person she was, that after her own experiences, she was so active in working towards reconciliation between France and Germany. She described the construction of Europe as perhaps her main aim in life, and was elected the first President of the European Parliament.

VIDEO. Regardez le documentaire "Un jour, une histoire : Simone Veil, l'instinct de vie"
(this is about her life in general, but I haven't found it in English. I'm sure it will become available in the next few days - I'll keep an eye out for an English language version and update the link.)

The only film I've found for now is the most recent one, which describes in detail the conflict and tension of the three days of the parliamentary debate about abortion, where her role was absolutely crucial - without her ability to face down the insults and threats she got, both within parliament and outside, the vote would probably not have got through.

La Loi (English subtitles)
 


GDPR

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Something of an oxymoron, but it's the title given to honorary members of l'Academie Française, in this case Simone Veil, possibly the most influential French woman since Marie Curie, certainly the most influential in French political life, who has died at the age of 89. She would have been 90 in July.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Veil

She is of course most famous for having been the Minister for Health and Social Affairs who legalized abortion, a controversial act which made her the target of death threats and even attacks : among other things, her husband's car was vandalized and covered in Nazi crosses, an accusation that was particularly shocking since she was herself a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau, where she saw her mother die. Her father and brother also died, having been separated from the rest of the family shortly after their arrest and last seen en route to Lithuania.

Her determination to improve women's lives (she spent most of her working life as a judge and in the Ministry for Justice) was only one part of what she tried to achieve in her life. In fact it's a measure of what an extraordinary person she was, that after her own experiences, she was so active in working towards reconciliation between France and Germany. She described the construction of Europe as perhaps her main aim in life, and was elected the first President of the European Parliament.

VIDEO. Regardez le documentaire "Un jour, une histoire : Simone Veil, l'instinct de vie"
(this is about her life in general, but I haven't found it in English. I'm sure it will become available in the next few days - I'll keep an eye out for an English language version and update the link.)

The only film I've found for now is the most recent one, which describes in detail the conflict and tension of the three days of the parliamentary debate about abortion, where her role was absolutely crucial - without her ability to face down the insults and threats she got, both within parliament and outside, the vote would probably not have got through.

La Loi (English subtitles)
Many many thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths is not a great legacy for anyone.
 

The Field Marshal

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It appears she was an agent of death on a par with histories greatest mass murderers.
 

petaljam

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Many many thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths is not a great legacy for anyone.
Many thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of women's lives and health saved.

At the time, 300 000 women a year were either going to the UK and Holland for abortions, and more who couldn't afford it were having illegal abortions in France, with a huge risk of infections, permanent infertility and even death. Women were travelling more or less openly, in coachloads every weekend. Sound familiar? So it's not that abortions weren't happening. They were.

Those are all facts from the Ministry of Health at the time, by the way, and are the reason a woman who was herself happily married and with children, and despite personal tragedies such as losing her only surviving sister and nephew in a car crash, decided that the only humane approach was to allow women who were going to end their pregnancies anyway, do so safely and legally.
 

stopdoingstuff

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An evil woman who enabled the mass slaughter of children. Talk about slow learners.
 

GDPR

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Many thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of women's lives and health saved.
According to UK figures, the above would cover about 2% of abortions, over 90% or thereabouts for "social reasons" or completely unnecessary deaths of unborn children, for whom you don't cry at all and for whom Ms Veil, like you, gave not a thought.

Who knows, maybe if there is a God or an afterlife she can now give reason or explanation to those hundreds of thousands as to why they never got to live their lives at all, but unfortunately most probably not.

Or am I being too emotional about them, after all no one can put a face or personality to them, although they would have had those to, perhaps we should just forget about them by pretending they never existed at all?
 
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flavirostris

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Marie Curie was a major contributor to science. This woman produced nothing. The left have some strange heroes.
 

petaljam

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Marie Curie was a major contributor to science. This woman produced nothing. The left have some strange heroes.
Ah sure she legalised abortion something many on the liberal left think is great.
She was of course Minister for Health in right-wing governments under a rightwing president, but please, don't let anything so minor as facts affect your comfortable version of reality. That would never do. :rolleyes:
 

devoutcapitalist

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She was of course Minister for Health in right-wing governments under a rightwing president, but please, don't let anything so minor as facts affect your comfortable version of reality. That would never do. :rolleyes:
"Conservative" governments in theory, liberal in reality.
 

eoghanacht

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She was of course Minister for Health in right-wing governments under a rightwing president, but please, don't let anything so minor as facts affect your comfortable version of reality. That would never do. :rolleyes:
This is P.ie.
 

flavirostris

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She was of course Minister for Health in right-wing governments under a rightwing president, but please, don't let anything so minor as facts affect your comfortable version of reality. That would never do. :rolleyes:
But you're talking about her as if she was some great genius like Marie Curie. Is abortion considered a magnificent acheivement by the left?
 

petaljam

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But you're talking about her as if she was some great genius like Marie Curie. Is abortion considered a magnificent acheivement by the left?
Did you miss where I said she did a great deal more than legalize abortion, and mentioned a couple of her other achievements? You can read up on her, I gave links.

As for your question, it's not abortion that's an achievement, abortion is just a sad event that is sometimes necessary for all sorts of reasons.

What's an achievement is that people are gradually coming to realize that these things are private matters and that telling other couples how to live their lives is arrogant. That realization started with contraception, then usually moved on to divorce in most countries. Abortion and same sex marriage took rather longer but we're getting there too.
 

flavirostris

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Did you miss where I said she did a great deal more than legalize abortion, and mentioned a couple of her other achievements? You can read up on her, I gave links.

As for your question, it's not abortion that's an achievement, abortion is just a sad event that is sometimes necessary for all sorts of reasons.

What's an achievement is that people are gradually coming to realize that these things are private matters and that telling other couples how to live their lives is arrogant. That realization started with contraception, then usually moved on to divorce in most countries. Abortion and same sex marriage took rather longer but we're getting there too.
Yes. Making it legal for women to kill their own kids is an equal achievement to discovering radium and making a magnificent contribution to science, said no one ever ( except maybe Una Mullally or some other Irish media crackpot ).
 

Toland

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Yes. Making it legal for women to kill their own kids is an equal achievement to discovering radium and making a magnificent contribution to science, said no one ever ( except maybe Una Mullally or some other Irish media crackpot ).
Arguing from your conclusions again, flav.
 
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Yes. Making it legal for women to kill their own kids is an equal achievement to discovering radium and making a magnificent contribution to science, said no one ever ( except maybe Una Mullally or some other Irish media crackpot ).
I adore seeing such anger.
 

Fellow

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Did you miss where I said she did a great deal more than legalize abortion, and mentioned a couple of her other achievements? You can read up on her, I gave links.

As for your question, it's not abortion that's an achievement, abortion is just a sad event that is sometimes necessary for all sorts of reasons.

What's an achievement is that people are gradually coming to realize that these things are private matters and that telling other couples how to live their lives is arrogant. That realization started with contraception, then usually moved on to divorce in most countries. Abortion and same sex marriage took rather longer but we're getting there too.
Marriage isn't a private matter but a public institution.
 


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