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Debunked: 12 Left wing reasons for staying in the EU.

Kommunist

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Debunked: 12 left-wing reasons for remaining in the European Union - Counterfire

Click in to read the explanations and arguments per point provided.

1. The EU has given us workers' rights and social protections. Leaving the EU will mean we lose those.

2. We need the EU to protect human rights - the Tories will shred our rights otherwise.

3. This is a referendum on migration and to vote Leave is effectively to oppose immigration into the UK.

4. Brexit will lead to migrants being deported in huge numbers from the UK.

5. Brexit will lead to a carnival of racist reaction.

6. The EU is at least some sort of shelter against a Tory government.

7. We may avoid TTIP, but a Tory government led by Eurosceptics would simply negotiate an even worse deal with the US.

8. If Cameron and Osborne are forced out, they will simply be replaced by even worse Tories.

9. The EU may be awful, but it can be reformed.

10. The EU may be flawed, but it still functions as a forum for much-needed international co-operation on issues from climate change to tackling tax evasion.

11. The EU may not be working well, but we need it for any prospective international co-operation.

12. It is better to be a 'European' - whatever the EU's limits - than a 'Little Englander'.




Further analysis

Communist Party of Greece - The peoples of Europe can break the chains of the EU and the monopolies

PoliticalEconomy.ie » Vote for withdrawing from the European Union

RMT union calls for members to vote for Brexit - FT.com

Morning Star :: It



Opinion:

I used to harbour similar ideals about the sanctity and positive aspects of the EU. In my second year of UCC, after which I left, I did several modules revolving around the EU, how it operates, how it was founded etc. Following no from that I complimented it with my own reading and some discussion with veteran trade union activists and some civil servants. The conclusions I came to were rather simple. The design of the EU from the onset has been undemocratic. The architect, Jean Monnet saw a series of supranational bodies consistently chip away at national sovereignty. This has happened at the expense of national and sovereign democracy while private capital, financial institutions and banks have grown in power. The single currency allows for the mass transit of capital and most importantly credit into banks, to flood them and destroy them (Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy).

The fact that the Irish budget has to be reviewed by the German parliament, that the IMF will visit Ireland for 40+ years until 75% of the European banking debt is repaid (Ireland is paying 42% of the over-all EU banking debt?).

This was never about democracy, unity or anything of the sort. It was about empowering German-French-British finance sectors at the expense of everybody else and it worked. The EU is a pro-business anti-people capitalist wet dream.

Don't even get me started on TTIP...
 


GDPR

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Debunked.


Counterfire is a split faction from the Swuppies which has piggy-backed opportunistically on the anti-austerity movement in Britain. They are anti-Trades Union, anti- any organised actions such as general strikes, and they are basically a totally sectarian fringe group.

It comes as no surprise they are repeating the arguments of Boris Johnson and The Spectator magazine. Which is where they will end up working, just like Brendan O Neill, late of the RCP and now of course a darling of the theists :)
 

dammit_im_mad

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Debunked.


Counterfire is a split faction from the Swuppies which has piggy-backed opportunistically on the anti-austerity movement in Britain. They are anti-Trades Union, anti- any organised actions such as general strikes, and they are basically a totally sectarian fringe group.

It comes as no surprise they are repeating the arguments of Boris Johnson and The Spectator magazine. Which is where they will end up working, just like Brendan O Neill, late of the RCP and now of course a darling of the theists :)
But are the arguments good or bad?
Are you pro or anti Brexit?
Why so?

Personally I'm for Brexit and any move away from the EU, which is a neoliberal wet dream, corrupt and out of control.
I find some of the arguments compelling
 

Kevin Parlon

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The issue of rights is a clanger. It presupposes national parliaments are incapable of passing laws protecting rights themselves. Free movement of people and trade within the bloc is the only aspect of it that has been an unmitigated success. It has also played a huge role is preserving the fabric of rural Europe, preventing it from turning into the mega-corporate scene you see in Australia and the USA.

The erosion of democracy is why I have moved from being an ardent Europhile to someone who wants to see it not abolished, but put firmly back in its box.

If I was British I'd be pro-Brexit. The only reason I am not is that the departure of the British will be taken by the anti-democratic federalist faction to speed up the process. The British do a good job (insofar as it's possible) of reining that in.
 

GDPR

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But are the arguments good or bad?
Are you pro or anti Brexit?
Why so?

Personally I'm for Brexit and any move away from the EU, which is a neoliberal wet dream, corrupt and out of control.
I find some of the arguments compelling
Against -and I get to vote which very few people on here do :)

So money where my mouth is.

Reason? The EU is a corrupt, shambolic, horrendous thing.

The UK without it will be even worse than it already is.
 

Kommunist

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Well Eagle, I know nothing about Counterfire. Below, I supplied additional analysis of the EU in it's current state and why it's anti-people and anti-democracy.

The arguments themselves however in my view are very solid.
 

Kommunist

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Against -and I get to vote which very few people on here do :)

So money where my mouth is.

Reason? The EU is a corrupt, shambolic, horrendous thing.

The UK without it will be even worse than it already is.
Why would it be worse? The article covers this point. Any change the likes of Corbyn want to make to the UK is limited by EU legislation while the brutal neoliberal austerity is promoted. This idea that the UK would be worse is false when the Conservatives have had free reign now for several years...
 

GDPR

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Why would it be worse? The article covers this point. Any change the likes of Corbyn want to make to the UK is limited by EU legislation while the brutal neoliberal austerity is promoted. This idea that the UK would be worse is false when the Conservatives have had free reign now for several years...
You wait till the UK is the finest little tax haven in the world.
 

Kommunist

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It has islands that are already tax havens.

The reality is that the EU has literally allowed the likes of the Conservatives and other right wing pro-austerity parties do what they want while the parties offering a viable alternative have been blocked.

For Ireland the question is simple: Home rule or independence?
 

dammit_im_mad

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You wait till the UK is the finest little tax haven in the world.
The US is already moving to become the greatest little corporate tax haven in the world anyway.
That's what some people think Panama papers was all about.

It's what they are all after TBH. To be hosts for all that money. And that money will corrupt a lot of people.
EU are already corrupted by it. 6000 lobbyists in Brussels, writing legislation and whispering in the ear of
those in power

The EU don't care that much about tax havens.
Look at Belgium and the Netherlands
EU Faces Tough Battle to Curb Tax Avoidance and Evasion - SPIEGEL ONLINE

TTIP will chill attempts to do anything which reduces corporate profits and mire it in ISDS litigation.

At least it can be taken on once out of the EU, and with the tories out. If the EU agree to it (and they will. US owns the EU) then it's game over unless you exit.
 

GDPR

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It has islands that are already tax havens.

The reality is that the EU has literally allowed the likes of the Conservatives and other right wing pro-austerity parties do what they want while the parties offering a viable alternative have been blocked.

For Ireland the question is simple: Home rule or independence?
I really am not interested in whether Ireland gets Home Rule or Independence. Ireland is bought and sold.

I grew up in the UK dispensation. Let me tell you, BREXIT means no left-wing workers paradise. Look who is backing it. The UK is about to set sail for the China seas and they will be greatly assisted by an exit from Europe.

Now please dont take this as an endorsement of the EU. But if it is not subject to democratic controls, whose fault is that? We have had every opportunity to insist and havent taken it.

If you imagine Ireland or the UK outside Europe will be any better off than it is now, you are fantasising. It will be a corporate free for all.

And it will destroy NI's agricultural and export sector, Totally.

A UI is on the cards, should the UK leave Europe and Ireland stay in. Roll the carpet out. Sure you missed us, didnt you ...
 

dammit_im_mad

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I really am not interested in whether Ireland gets Home Rule or Independence. Ireland is bought and sold.

I grew up in the UK dispensation. Let me tell you, BREXIT means no left-wing workers paradise. Look who is backing it. The UK is about to set sail for the China seas and they will be greatly assisted by an exit from Europe.

Now please dont take this as an endorsement of the EU. But if it is not subject to democratic controls, whose fault is that? We have had every opportunity to insist and havent taken it.

If you imagine Ireland or the UK outside Europe will be any better off than it is now, you are fantasising. It will be a corporate free for all.

And it will destroy NI's agricultural and export sector, Totally.

A UI is on the cards, should the UK leave Europe and Ireland stay in. Roll the carpet out. Sure you missed us, didnt you ...
Look who liked your post! :p

I don't agree we had an opportunity to change anything in the EU. Nor will we ever again in any meaningful way.
We voted, they didn't like it, we voted again.....

We were conned from the start, by our own politicians in league with corporates,
and also by the EU itself too since the start. Even the germans think so.
 

GDPR

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Look who liked your post! :p

I don't agree we had an opportunity to change anything in the EU. Nor will we ever again in any meaningful way.
We voted, they didn't like it, we voted again.....

We were conned from the start, by our own politicians in league with corporates,
and also by the EU itself too since the start. Even the germans think so.

I cant be responsible for my admirers, dear, you of all people should know that :)

I have no respect for what the EU now is. However the alternative is worse. The corporates really do want fragmentation so they can rule. When they have broken down all supranational institutions, they will roll up the national ones.

Exiting the EU is no ticket anywhere.
 

olli rehn

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Look who liked your post! :p

I don't agree we had an opportunity to change anything in the EU. Nor will we ever again in any meaningful way.
We voted, they didn't like it, we voted again.....

We were conned from the start, by our own politicians in league with corporates,
and also by the EU itself too since the start. Even the germans think so.
Big brother is watching you.

You have no alternative- that is the problem. Surely the EU is one big pile of sh!t. But an exit means only more sh!t.So why to go for more punishment ?
 

dammit_im_mad

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I cant be responsible for my admirers, dear, you of all people should know that :)

I have no respect for what the EU now is. However the alternative is worse. The corporates really do want fragmentation so they can rule. When they have broken down all supranational institutions, they will roll up the national ones.

Exiting the EU is no ticket anywhere.
Neither is staying.
A central location which creates legislation for many countries in one single stroke is rather convenient for the corporates don't you think, especially when they have already bought it off and it has clearly already bought into their morally bankrupt neoliberal philosophy.

Some people are eternal optimists and believe we can still change the EU. I'm not one of them.
The only significant movement I see is a drift in one direction.
Towards unaccountability, dismantling of social safety nets and the leveraged buyout of weaker countries followed by privatisation of any state utilities and stealing of any useful resources and assets, and a foreign buyout of property creating a rentier society and a pool of cheap desperate labour. Of course our greedy self serving snivelling incompetent traitorous gombeen political class have greatly accelerated the process.
 
Last edited:

Truth.ie

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Brexit will cause a domino effect, and you can be sure Holland and France will follow.
After that the Germans will have to carry the PIGS and the Eastern European countries.
Then it will implode.
Good riddance too.
 

GDPR

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Neither is staying.
A central location which creates legislation for many countries in one single stroke is rather convenient for the corporates don't you think, especially when they have already bought it off and it has clearly already bought into their morally bankrupt neoliberal philosophy.

Some people are eternal optimists and believe we can still change the EU. I'm not one of them.
The only significant movement I see is a drift in one direction.
Towards unaccountability, dismantling of social safety nets and the leveraged buyout of weaker countries followed by privatisation of any state utilities and stealing of any useful resources and assets, and a foreign buyout of property creating a rentier society and a pool of cheap desaperate labour. Of course our greedy self serving snivelling incompetent traitorous gombeen political class have greatly accelerated the process.
And they will act no differently outwith the EU.

Only they will sell the ports to China in a heart beat.

If Britain exits the EU, there will be a colossal impact on the Irish economy. I bn stg worth of trade per week could go up in smoke.

That wont lead to anything but further impoverishment for the ordinary people. Let us be realistic now.
 

olli rehn

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Brexit will cause a domino effect, and you can be sure Holland and France will follow.
After that the Germans will have to carry the PIGS and the Eastern European countries.
Then it will implode.
Good riddance too.
Carry on dreaming- that won't happen.I am sure you like to see it !
 

Kommunist

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I really am not interested in whether Ireland gets Home Rule or Independence. Ireland is bought and sold.

I grew up in the UK dispensation. Let me tell you, BREXIT means no left-wing workers paradise. Look who is backing it. The UK is about to set sail for the China seas and they will be greatly assisted by an exit from Europe.

Now please dont take this as an endorsement of the EU. But if it is not subject to democratic controls, whose fault is that? We have had every opportunity to insist and havent taken it.

If you imagine Ireland or the UK outside Europe will be any better off than it is now, you are fantasising. It will be a corporate free for all.

And it will destroy NI's agricultural and export sector, Totally.

A UI is on the cards, should the UK leave Europe and Ireland stay in. Roll the carpet out. Sure you missed us, didnt you ...
That's not correct. The policies the likes of Corbyn is promoting are blocked by membership of the EU for example.

You're not really accepting the fact that it's already a corporate free for all and for some bizarre reason imply that it'll be worse off without the EU when there's no tangible evidence for this. The only evidence that exists for this is that under the EU austerity has been fully implemented (in fact I read that the German banking system made a very nice profit from the Greek collapse).
 


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