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'Decay levels low due to fluoride'


N

NM_123

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2008/0805/1217628546632.html

'Decay levels low due to fluoride'

MICHELLE McDONAGH

"WITHOUT WATER fluoridation, Ireland would have levels of dental decay as high as those of eastern Europe, according to a Cork researcher, who is regarded as one of the world experts in the field of oral health.

Prof Helen Whelton, director of the Oral Health Services Research Centre, UCC, has said that while tooth decay in Ireland is much lower than it would be without a national fluoridation programme, it could be lower if children brushed their teeth twice daily.

"Fluoridation is extremely important in this country in preventing dental decay as we have quite poor eating and dental care habits. If we did not have fluoridated water, we would be at eastern European levels of dental decay," she said.




Apologies if this was posted already, I can't see it so far, and the search function isn't working right now.
 
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The OD

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But does fluoride do anything for your teeth once it passes them by? What I mean is, does ingesting it into our system help our teeth in anyway?

Personally, I like to rub the fluoride onto my teeth vigourously, gargle, rinse and then spit it out. Should I swallow? Is that too much of an innuendo?

:shock2:
 

DaveM

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soubresauts is going to go nuts on this one :lol:
 

zuton

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The information that the media-including the “newspaper of record” get paid not to give us...



WHO Ignores Science, Questions - Recommends Toxic Fluoride




[quote:hzm2hpr5]And certainly fluoride is not something to swallow voluntarily, it has been linked with aggression, lower IQ scores, cancer, obesity, irritable bowel syndrome and it seems to interfere with thyroid hormones.
Fluoride is systemically toxic and seems to be an ingredient of many of the chemical industry's products, from pesticides to medicines.
Joe Thornton has looked at the composition of the WHO fluoride panel and it appears that the recommendations are authored by a clique of well known fluoride promoters, rather than a wide selection of experts in health and biochemistry, as one would have expected.

Paul Connett of the Fluoride Action Network introduces Thornton's research with the following words.

Today I received this tour de force from Joe Thornton, an Irish citizen who resides in Germany. He rips into the World Health Organization (WHO) for their fluoride section in their new report on Drinking Water Guidelines. He decries their (unsupportable) use of the word "nutrient" to describe fluoride and he exposes the fact that three of the four experts (Drs. Michael Lennon, Denis O'Mullane and Helen Whelton) who drew up the guidelines for fluoride have a hugely pro-fluoridation bias. This bias is exposed in excruciating detail...
You will need a lot of stamina to get through this tightly documented "treatise" but this is a gold mine of information for those who have an interest in the abuse of the public trust by health and regulatory bodies throughout the world. If you cannot get through it all in one reading, file it away in a safe place ready for the next official who tells you that fluoridation must be OK because it is supported by the World Health Organization

WHO's BIG MISTAKE #1:

The WHO guidelines name fluoride as a "nutrient mineral" and "essential" for human health. But fluoride is not a nutrient of any sort. Not only is it not essential, it should be avoided at all costs. The WHO's error (or deception) reinforces the widespread belief in the concept of "fluoride-deficient water", a belief that seems to have infected all the WHO people involved.


it gets better as it goes on....

Many of the statements in the WHO documents written by Ekstrand, Lennon, O'Mullane and Whelton are mind-boggling. For example:

They write about "the need to ensure an appropriate minimum intake of fluoride to prevent loss from bone".

And this: "In parts [of the UK], such as the South East of England, dental caries is mainly under control without water fluoridation; in other regions, such as the North West of England, the prevalence of dental caries is substantially higher and water fluoridation remains an important public health objective."
[/quote:hzm2hpr5]

...and on..





Reverse Mandatory Water Fluoridation in Ireland
 
N

NM_123

The OD said:
But does fluoride do anything for your teeth once it passes them by? What I mean is, does ingesting it into our system help our teeth in anyway?
In water, fluoride will replace a hydroxyl group in your tooth enamel, rendering it a more stable molecule, and thus less likely to be damaged by the acidic side effects of lurking bacteria nearby, leading to less tooth decay. It is a simple reaction that makes your teeth less chemically reactive, and so more resistant to all that lives in our mouths.

The OD said:
Personally, I like to rub the fluoride onto my teeth vigourously, gargle, rinse and then spit it out. Should I swallow? Is that too much of an innuendo?
I would not swallow toothpaste if possible (though it is harmless if you do, unless you actively eat packets of it!). The article above refers to fluoride in water rather than in toothpaste, though the ultimate benefits are the same.
 
N

NM_123

zuton said:
The information that the media-including the “newspaper of record” get paid not to give us...
There is no scientific evidence that contradicts the article above.

Crazy ramblings, misinformed opionins and loony websites need not apply.
 

zuton

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NM_123 said:
zuton said:
The information that the media-including the “newspaper of record” get paid not to give us...
There is no scientific evidence that contradicts the article above.
so you're saying that fluoride is a "nutrient"?

NM_123 said:
Crazy ramblings, misinformed opionins and loony websites need not apply.
ditto.
 

soubresauts

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I would not swallow toothpaste if possible (though it is harmless if you do, unless you actively eat packets of it!).
The Fluoridation Forum report, in an unusually lucid passage, commented on fluoride toxicity thus (page 112):
A standard tube of toothpaste contains about 125 gram of toothpaste (generally containing 1500 ppm fluoride); swallowing as little as one-quarter of a tube may be life-threatening for a one-year-old child.
The fluoride added to Irish water (hydrofluorosilicic acid) is even more toxic than toothpaste fluoride (source: the bible of fluoride toxicology -- "Fluorine intoxication" by Kaj Roholm, 1937).

Micheál Martin, who set up the Fluoridation Forum, is a friend of the aforementioned Prof Helen Whelton, who told the Irish Times (May 17th, 1999):
There is no cause for concern at the levels of fluoride people are getting. There is no reason to remove fluoride from the water.
I can give 100 good reasons for stopping fluoridation (here are 50). Either Whelton is appallingly ignorant, or she's lying. Which is it, NM_123?
 

Odyessus

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'Decay levels low due to fluoride' - The Irish Times - Tue, Aug 05, 2008

'Decay levels low due to fluoride'

MICHELLE McDONAGH

"WITHOUT WATER fluoridation, Ireland would have levels of dental decay as high as those of eastern Europe, according to a Cork researcher, who is regarded as one of the world experts in the field of oral health.

Prof Helen Whelton, director of the Oral Health Services Research Centre, UCC, has said that while tooth decay in Ireland is much lower than it would be without a national fluoridation programme, it could be lower if children brushed their teeth twice daily.

"Fluoridation is extremely important in this country in preventing dental decay as we have quite poor eating and dental care habits. If we did not have fluoridated water, we would be at eastern European levels of dental decay," she said.

Prof Whelton has just received an international award from the European Organisation for Caries Research (ORCA) in recognition of her outstanding contributions to the field of dental caries research.

She received the 2008 Zsolnay prize at the annual congress of ORCA in the Netherlands.

Prof Whelton pointed out that while Ireland could be expected to be on a par with the UK in terms of dental hygiene levels, only about 58 per cent of 15-year-olds in the Republic brush their teeth twice a day, compared to over 80 per cent of their peers in the UK.

"Twenty years ago, tooth brushing in the UK was at the same level as our 15-year-olds are at today. There is certainly something in the culture that we are not addressing specifically."

She said Ireland is extremely fortunate to be the only country in Europe with a national water fluoridation programme as the problems tooth decay would cause in the absence of such a programme would be far more serious.

"The risk of fluoridation is that if too much is taken in children under the age of three years as teeth are being formed, it can cause fluorosis. Fluorosis is actually caused by young children swallowing the water. Although our brushing habits are not good enough yet, many parents particularly middle class parents, are starting to brush their children's teeth at a young age."

Prof Whelon said parents should not use fluoride toothpaste on children under two, but they should ensure that children older than two brush twice a day with a pea-size amount of fluoride toothpaste.

She explained that mild fluorosis is characterised by fine white lines or patches on the teeth, while more severe cases of the condition can cause tooth deformity.

However, she pointed out that severe fluorosis is not seen in people who have grown up in Ireland - where water fluoridation has been in place since the 1960s.

Prof Whelton has been the principal investigator in many large-scale epidemiological studies, including clinical trials and water fluoridation studies. Her research includes the measurement of fluoride and dental fluorosis and she is regarded as one of the world experts in this field.

© 2008 The Irish Times"

Apologies if this was posted already, I can't see it so far, and the search function isn't working right now.

This is what passes for journalism in the Irish Times.

ἐδάκρυσεν ὁ ἰησοῦς.

John 11, 35.
 

KungFugazi

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The very first occurrence of purposefully putting sodium fluoride into drinking water was in Nazi Germany's concentration camps and ghettos, the Soviets caught on to Idea around the same time, they first used it in their Gulags.

They couldn't care less about peoples dental health, they put in the water supply because it sterilized people and made them docile and submissive.
 

Odyessus

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The very first occurrence of purposefully putting sodium fluoride into drinking water was in Nazi Germany's concentration camps and ghettos, the Soviets caught on to Idea around the same time, they first used it in their Gulags.

They couldn't care less about peoples dental health, they put in the water supply because it sterilized people and made them docile and submissive.


Yes, but if you don't drink it you get paranoid. (And very thirsty.)
 

soubresauts

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I read through this posting and he didn't say that.
Zuton was correct by implication, because what NM_123 wrote was expressing approval of the statements of Prof Helen Whelton. And Whelton certainly does call fluoride a "nutrient". That is stated in many documents Whelton co-authored for the World Health Organization.

The fact is that fluoride is not a nutrient of any sort. How can the WHO promulgate such a major error? How can Whelton be so ignorant? How can Whelton, a dentist, exercise such power over the WHO and over the Irish Government?

The answers to these questions are too much for ordinary Irish consumers to face up to. So they are covered up.
 

Destiny's Soldier

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On the subject of Hydrofluorosilicic Acid being added to the Irish Water Supply the following is a response to a Q from Kathy Sinnott at the EU Parliament

"The substance decomposes after addition within the drinking water treatment, releasing fluoride ions"

Question:
Written question - Hydrofluorosilicic acid assessment - E-5458/2007

Answer:
Answer to a written question - Hydrofluorosilicic acid assessment - E-5458/2007

Funnily enough the line that it "decomposes" contrasts to the MSDS sheet from Chemifloc who sell the stuff to the Municipal authorities in Ireland.

see
http://www.chemifloc.ie/msds/MSDS_Fluorosilicic_Acid.pdf

Stability:
Fluorosilicic Acid is stable in an aqueous solution.

But in the answer to Kathy Sinnot from the EU:

"In view of the WHO Guidelines(1), there is a clear risk of adverse skeletal effects for a total intake of 14 mg/day and suggestive evidence of increased risk at total intake above 6 mg/day (all sources of fluoride confounded).""

Now consider a new born baby (1 month) taking 6 bottles of 250ml formula = 1500ml liquid:
At 1ppm (1mg/L) in the Water supply, a baby is taking in 1.5mg of Fluorine a day.

If 6mg is toxic to an adult (average weight say 70 Kg) a 5Kg Baby is taking the equivalent concentration of 21mg of Fluorine in it's diet by comparison to a 70Kg adult.

There is 1000 times more Fluorine in our water supply than there is expressed in Breast Milk.
YOU THINK ABOUT THAT!
 

adrem

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And yet somehow - obviously by magic - we've had fluoridation in Ireland for decades and we haven't all died, our teeth aren't all deformed and we aren't all suffering from fluoride related illnesses, we aren't all sterile although there does seem to be an increased level of paranoia !!
 

Destiny's Soldier

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And yet somehow - obviously by magic - we've had fluoridation in Ireland for decades and we haven't all died, our teeth aren't all deformed and we aren't all suffering from fluoride related illnesses, we aren't all sterile although there does seem to be an increased level of paranoia !!
You have to ask yourself do you want to take a historical approach or a scientific approach.

Perhaps there are increased levels of illnessess in Ireland which could be attributed to Fluorine but we don't yet know about them.

Why don't we know? Because the are no Biochemical studies actually done in Ireland on the possible side effects of Fluorine in the Water Supply.

Can you comment on this Soubresauts?
 

Destiny's Soldier

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To put things in perspective: Contrast the figure in the Chemifloc datasheet for the Occupational Exposure Limit for Hydrofluorosilicic Acid Vs a KNOWN toxic substance Hydrogen Cyanide.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and
American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) have established an
eight-hour time-weighted average (TWA) of 2.5 mg/m3 fluorides, as fluorine.



Hydrogen Cyanide
The current Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) permissible exposure limit (PEL) for hydrogen cyanide is 10 ppm (11 milligrams per cubic meter (11mg/m3) as an 8-hour time-weighted average (TWA) concentration. The OSHA PEL also bears a "Skin" notation, which indicates that the cutaneous route of exposure (including mucous membranes and eyes) contributes to overall exposure [29 CFR 1910.1000, Table Z-1].


The literature is saying that Hydrofluorsilicic Acid is 4 times as toxic as Hydrogen Cyanide.

Anyone care to comment????
 

soubresauts

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And yet somehow - obviously by magic - we've had fluoridation in Ireland for decades and we haven't all died
This is true (apart from the magic). 44 years and counting. In which time the health effects (apart from dental) of fluoridation on the population of Ireland (the only democracy with mandatory fluoridation) have never been studied by Government-sanctioned medical researchers.

There have been a couple of privately-funded studies on fluoridation side-effects, the latest one reported here.

Scientific fact: With slow poisoning, you don't see bodies lying in the street.

... our teeth aren't all deformed
Most of them are, actually. See, for example, this post about delayed eruption. Have you not heard about the waiting lists for orthodontic treatment? It's heartbreaking to hear about all those kids permanently disfigured.

... and we aren't all suffering from fluoride related illnesses,
Are you sure? Lists of fluoride-related illnesses: here, and here. Fluoride, even at very low doses, certainly causes hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). Last time I checked, the third most prescribed drug, after statins and aspirin, in the Irish GMS (medical card system) was Levothyroxine, the treatment for hypothyroidism. And the fourth most prescribed drug in the US was Synthroid, the American equivalent. The US is nearly as heavily fluoridated as Ireland.

we aren't all sterile
We're getting there; see this.

although there does seem to be an increased level of paranoia !!
Who's paranoid?

Are you really happy to have unmeasured amounts of fluosilicic acid, one of the most toxic chemicals known to science, forced down your throat all day every day?
 
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Destiny's Soldier

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One of the links you gave Soubresauts:

Does your drinking water contain added fluoride?

If so, keep it away from infants under the age of one. This directive was issued recently by an unlikely source: the American Dental Association (ADA).

In a November 9th email alert sent to all of its members, the ADA noted that "Infants less than one year old may be getting more than the optimal amount of fluoride if their primary source of nutrition is powdered or liquid infant formula mixed with water containing fluoride." The ADA went on to advise: "If using a product that needs to be reconstituted, parents and caregivers should consider using water that has no or low levels of fluoride."

The ADA issued this advice because babies exposed to fluoridated water are at high risk for developing dental fluorosis—a defect of the teeth which can result in staining and even corrosion of the enamel. In addition, on October 14th, the Food and Drug Administration stated that fluoridated water marketed to infants cannot claim to reduce the risk of cavities.

Dental fluorosis is not the only risk stemming from a baby's exposure to fluoride.

In the same week that ADA issued its advisory, an article in the British journal, The Lancet, reported that fluoride may damage a child's developing brain. The Lancet review described fluoride, along with the rocket fuel additive perchlorate, as an "emerging neurotoxic substance" due to evidence linking fluoride to lower IQs in children, and brain damage in animals.

It's probably beginning to dawn on the dentists too!
 

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