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"Decentralisation"


Schuhart

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Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
4,840
The title is in quotes because, as we know, what's termed 'decentralisation' in Ireland bears no relationship to what the term is generally taken to mean elsewhere.

The Irish Times are running a series. It strikes me as a worthwhile opportunity to flush out whether this agenda is actually as dead as it should be.

So, decentralisation. Do we agree this is simply an imbecilic idea?

If we do agree, do we agree to the extent that we'd favour its reversal?
 


kerdasi amaq

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Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
4,689
"Decentralization", a scam whereby choice city properties are freed up for sale, at less than true value, to selected property developers. Is that it?
 

dresden8

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Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
14,936
"Decentralization", a scam whereby choice city properties are freed up for sale, at less than true value, to selected property developers. Is that it?
And a lot of property down the country was sold to the OPW.

Everybody happy, except the public servants and those who use their now eviscerated services.

Well done Charlie, I see you got the votes for it anyway.
 

USER1234

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Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
9,418
The title is in quotes because, as we know, what's termed 'decentralisation' in Ireland bears no relationship to what the term is generally taken to mean elsewhere.

The Irish Times are running a series. It strikes me as a worthwhile opportunity to flush out whether this agenda is actually as dead as it should be.

So, decentralisation. Do we agree this is simply an imbecilic idea?

If we do agree, do we agree to the extent that we'd favour its reversal?
Yes this was very imbecilic, it was taught up as a vote catcher and ended up cost us millions and millions when the government bought buildings down the country and found they could not force staff to relocate (ether by force by denying them promotions etc unless they moved or tempting them to move), so the government has a lot of empty building down the country, which it will now have to sell

As for its reversal, i'd leave the few groups who have moved but id move no more and sell the already bought but unused building if i can (they wont get a third of the price they paid though because of the economic bust and that if they can find buyers at all)

All in all a complete screw up!!!
 

Fides

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Apr 6, 2010
Messages
4,441
Actually I have no problem with decentralisation as long as it is done logically. The Collector General is down in Limerick and that seems to work fine. The CRO is in Carlow and again with the internet doesn't cause a problem. Ireland is too Dublin centric (I'm a Dubliner) and we need to create jobs elsewhere. No reason why a lot of government activity cannot happen elsewhere in this day of internet. It needed to be done at a slower pace and pick sensible locations to move departments to (not government minister's constituencies). Also there does need to be a level of critical mass for these locations.
 

cricket

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Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
13,959
" Who benefits " ? asked Fintan O'Toole today and then you see what it's all about. The beneficiaries are the local property owners / developers. Now, what party , if any , would they have a link to ?
 

Baron von Biffo

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Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
11,394
Decentralisation is now coming back to bite the government in a way no one would have predicted when it was announced. All those relatively secure jobs that were moved to towns around the country gave a boost to local economies. Now Lenihans two cuts in PS pay have taken money out of those communities at the worst possible time. In the past this would have hurt only Dublin TDs, now it's waiting in every constituency.
 

GreenBack

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Sep 16, 2009
Messages
227
Decentralisation. Is that when the government realised house prices in Dublin were too high? when did it start?
 

MsAnneThrope

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Apr 8, 2009
Messages
1,812
Tom Parlon speaks to Mark Little of RTÉ's Prime Time about decentralisation in May 2006. Watch and weep.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znL5sLfTGrY"]Tom Parlon on Decentralisation[/ame]
 

factual

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Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,761
The title is in quotes because, as we know, what's termed 'decentralisation' in Ireland bears no relationship to what the term is generally taken to mean elsewhere.

The Irish Times are running a series. It strikes me as a worthwhile opportunity to flush out whether this agenda is actually as dead as it should be.

So, decentralisation. Do we agree this is simply an imbecilic idea?

If we do agree, do we agree to the extent that we'd favour its reversal?
It is a silly idea. We are a small country and Dublin is its only major city and it makes sense to focus things on Dublin, which is in easy reach of all.
 

Schuhart

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Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
4,840
Ireland is too Dublin centric
I actually don't know what that is supposed to mean. And its a phrase employed to excuse all kinds of imbecility.
Decentralisation is now coming back to bite the government in a way no one would have predicted when it was announced. All those relatively secure jobs that were moved to towns around the country gave a boost to local economies. Now Lenihans two cuts in PS pay have taken money out of those communities at the worst possible time. In the past this would have hurt only Dublin TDs, now it's waiting in every constituency.
That was actually always the situation, and moving a few thousand civil service jobs hasn't created the situation.

But you are correct. Its towns other than Dublin that are most dependent on public sector jobs - but that includes jobs like teaching, that are located nationally of their nature.
 

Fides

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Apr 6, 2010
Messages
4,441
I actually don't know what that is supposed to mean. And its a phrase employed to excuse all kinds of imbecility.That was actually always the situation, and moving a few thousand civil service jobs hasn't created the situation.

But you are correct. Its towns other than Dublin that are most dependent on public sector jobs - but that includes jobs like teaching, that are located nationally of their nature.
I take it to mean too big a percentage of the population living in one urban area.
 

MoggyMcG

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Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
264
Can anyone remember Donal Foley's formula for decentralisation? It went something like this...not at all complete: Dept of Education...to Schull; Dept of Industry...to Birr; Dept of Labour...to Coventry;and so on...anyone remember the others?
 

gatsbygirl20

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Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,773
Absolutely insane. Based on this silly notion that everyone is always interchangeable, across an unbridgeable range of skills and departments. Junior and technical staff move to west Cork where houses are cheaper. Middle-aged mid and senior decision makers stay in Dublin because they have working spouses and kids in school.

Anyone from anywhere in the country who applied for a transfer to West Cork or Leitrim is considered suitable. Original middle management in Dublin in-services them for a few weeks. Off they go, more or less still clueless about the nuts and bolts of their jobs. Managers in Dublin are sidelined or moved to another Dept, where they in turn don't have a clue .

Bewildered consumers of the service are still emailing and trying to set up meetings with the original guys in Dublin whom they have got to know, and who have years of experience, and know about their specific case. Young turks in West Cork keep referring back to original guys in Dublin who have the knowledge, but are now themselves floundering somewhere else... Older sidelined guys can't take this charade any more, and many retire taking vital knowledge, contacts and skills with them....
 

charley

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Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
1,247
If the financial regulator's office had been outside of Dublin would he have been wined and dined as much by the bankers?

As for buying properties to operate from the HSE spend millions on rent yet have loads of properties of their own unocuppied.
 

Pabilito

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Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,601
Why is it, do you think, that local businesses welcomed decentralised government offices coming to there towns?
We need to re-centralise now. Get rid of 50% of them grossly overpaid useless wasters in the PS. They are sucking our children dry.
 

controller

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Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
3,176
Ma Harney, she is involved in everything that is wrong with this government

It’s no wonder, then, that the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats coalition kept it all under wraps until budget day. In fact, as the then minister for the environment, Martin Cullen, admitted to me, when I asked him who had concocted the programme, “there were only four of us involved: Bertie , McCreevy,Mary Harney and myself.” He chuckled at the thought.
 

jackryan

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Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,697
Decentralisation should have been put into action for three reasons!
1 to shake up PS
2 to make sure areas outside the Pale and other urban areas got jobs etc
3 to show the world we were broadband/can work from anywhere in the world!

Of course got bogged down in Unions/senior PS people not wanting to move, political moves my town must get it? and finally a just anti political move against it! I think the technology is there! if we used the the logic of non-decentralisationism no International company would move parts of their headquarters, to say ireland (oh they might do it to service their other markets?) well the PS do service outside of Dublin too!
 

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