Depression on the rise - is this the real measure of austerity?

Wagmore

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In the last 10 to 12 years i knew 5 fellas who comitted suicide, of the 4 only 1 ever complained of depression, a number of years earlier he fallen off a ladder while paintig and hurted his head. He went everywhere getting help, he had tried unsuccessfully a number of times, his wife done her best never to leave him alone in the house, for ssome reaason he was left alone, when she came back the shed door waas closed and she knew straigght away.
The other 3 men, never, the first fella, he was driving a van with a work coleague with him, pulled up beside the Moy and by the other fella realised what he was going to do it was to late.their was something on his mind as his sister was busy that day at work and when she got to check her phone she had 18 missed calls from him but it was to late at that stage.
The 2nd fell, married no kids, fine new house, fine farm of land, always in good humour, one morning he rang an neighbour who he had talked to in months, that he had a cow who was having trouble calvingand he might come up and give him a hand. Would have take 10 to 15 minutes to get from his house to the shed and along the way he heard a shot. Not paying much heed to the shot he entered the stable and found him lying on the ground, he thought he had got a kick from a cow, but he had shot himself.
The 3rd, seperated with 2 kids, had a job, had not heard of him being depressed.
The 4th fella yesterday, alaways seemed to be in good humour., the last person who u would ever think of doing it, worked for a farmer, played a couple gaames of cards with only a couple of weeks ago. Lived at home with his parents, went out to the shed yesterday morning and hung himself, it has being said that he spent all day Sat. in bed, so their must have being something troubling him.

RIP Alan, John, Keneth, JP and Johnny
Sorry to hear. Must be hard to be around that sort of tragedy. Personally, I blame the the battering Christian belief has been given by a secular media etc for the cause of such depression and alienation. Cultural dumbdowning leaves us with saturday night takeaways, Dancing with the duds and Ireland's got Talent. Anyone would need Prozac to survive that shitttte. And I'm not talking about RCC when I say Christian belief---they were/are mostly just a bunch of corrupt control freak Fascists. As an aside, have also got my suspicions around internet gambling and high rate of sudden suicide. PP will let you bet your life away over a 20minute period if you're gullible and don't know what you're dealing with
 


Round tower

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Sorry to hear. Must be hard to be around that sort of tragedy. Personally, I blame the the battering Christian belief has been given by a secular media etc for the cause of such depression and alienation. Cultural dumbdowning leaves us with saturday night takeaways, Dancing with the duds and Ireland's got Talent. Anyone would need Prozac to survive that shitttte. And I'm not talking about RCC when I say Christian belief---they were/are mostly just a bunch of corrupt control freak Fascists. As an aside, have also got my suspicions around internet gambling and high rate of sudden suicide. PP will let you bet your life away over a 20minute period if you're gullible and don't know what you're dealing with
The 2nd one would be te one which is the most personel as my sister was married to his brother, i have seen aat first hand the effect it had on his family, my sister, frother in laww, nephew and nieces. That evening his parents was at mass in Ballina at the cathhederal which is beside the river, they nevr went to mass there since. That his brothers and sisters are still deeeply affected that for years they could not sleep at night The rumours that went out, that it was the BIL, my niece got a text from a friend of hes inquiring if it was her fatther.
The one now, he is from a family of 11 with a big family of aunts, uncles and cousins, he was someone u would meet out most weekends, i would have worked with 2 of his brother and a sister, his mother done home help 15 years ago and when my father died, she just turned up to help get the house ready.
 
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Wagmore

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The 2nd one would be te one which is the most personel as my sister was married to his brother, i have seen aat first hand the effect it had on his family, my sister, frother in laww, nephew and nieces. That evening his parents was at mass in Ballina at the cathhederal which is beside the river, they nevr went to mass there since. That his brothers and sisters are still deeeply affected that for years they could not sleep at night The rumours that went out, that it was the BIL, my niece got a text from a friend of hes inquiring if it was her fatther.
The one now, he is from a family of 11 with a big family of aunts, uncles and cousins, he was someone u would meet out most weekends, i would have worked with 2 of his brother and a sister, his mother done home help 15 years ago and when my father died, she just turned up to help get the house ready.
Very tragic. Never really thought of effect it might have on wider family.....not sure what you mean by the "BIL"
 

Round tower

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Very tragic. Never really thought of effect it might have on wider family.....not sure what you mean by the "BIL"
Very tragic. Never really thought of effect it might have on wider family.....not sure what you mean by the "BIL"
Brother In Law

Their was another case which was very unusual, our Parish Preiest sister suffered fro depresion for years, she was afraid of water and the cold, her mother was in a home across the river, she would stay one side of the bridge and wait till some one came and crossed the bridge with her. One December she drowned herself in the river, that day they were searching for a man who had committed suicide in the river, they found a body who they assumed was the man, pulled the bag over the body, zipped and brought it to riverbank. A gaurd insisted on checking the body and it waas only then they discovered it was a women, that was the first time they knew she was mising.
 

Wagmore

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Jeez---suicide doesn't really make the headlines. Can understand why media don't really want to highlight it for fear of prompting clusters but seems like it could he a silent epidemic
 

APettigrew92

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Rubbish post. Read what I wrote and reply to that, not what you seem to think I wrote.
Ah, go on sure. Let's have a look.
Rubbish. The biggest barrier to working class kids is people with attitudes like yours.

There is no upper class in Ireland. 'Middle class' and 'working class' are labels people apply to themselves and I question the motivation of people who do - usually either snobbery or reverse snobbery.
So you imply that "people with attitudes like [mine]" are what are holding working class kids back. See, that's a bit of an odd statement considering I am working class myself. Apparently I am a hindrance to my own success. Apparently that hindrance is "attitude" - although my "attitude" is borne out by the facts. Rather than engaging in self-aggrandizing statements such as "rubbish post" and insinuating that I can't grasp the gravity of your two sentences, perhaps you should try, you know, engaging with the debate.

Nobody cares if you "question the motivation of people who do" - the structural barriers which have been erected on class lines as dictated almost exclusively by economic factors doesn't care for your questions. If you're willingly ignorant of such facts then the truth is that you're just being criminally naive. Constructively naive, even.
 

Sweet Darling

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Working class is a belittling label put on people of low income by the left to install victimhood.
 

Politics matters

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Jeez---suicide doesn't really make the headlines. Can understand why media don't really want to highlight it for fear of prompting clusters but seems like it could he a silent epidemic
Because the third wave feminists are happy that so many men are killing themselves.
 

Politics matters

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Whatever about third level, state funding of primary and second level is skewed towards the under privileged. And it's how you get on at second level that determines entry to third level. Education is what you make of it folks. Also, nobody has to pay €2,200 a month for student accommodation. You can get decent house sharing situations for a lot less than half that on bus routes in Dublin.
Why does the state provide subsidies to elitist fee paying schools if that is the case?
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Rubbish. The biggest barrier to working class kids is people with attitudes like yours.

There is no upper class in Ireland. 'Middle class' and 'working class' are labels people apply to themselves and I question the motivation of people who do - usually either snobbery or reverse snobbery.
The biggest barrier to working class kids is their attitude? Jesus.

Wait until I go around Hardwicke Street and Sheriff Street and tell them that acceptance to Private Schools is conditional on their attitude and, you know, not their lack of €6,000 a year.

Why aren't we rolling this out across the country? Just change your attitude! Think positively! Just do it!
I was trying that for years, which ran into decades, and it never worked, so I woke up one day and said "today, I'm gonna think negative", and things got worse..

Ah, go on sure. Let's have a look.

So you imply that "people with attitudes like [mine]" are what are holding working class kids back. See, that's a bit of an odd statement considering I am working class myself. Apparently I am a hindrance to my own success. Apparently that hindrance is "attitude" - although my "attitude" is borne out by the facts. Rather than engaging in self-aggrandizing statements such as "rubbish post" and insinuating that I can't grasp the gravity of your two sentences, perhaps you should try, you know, engaging with the debate.

Nobody cares if you "question the motivation of people who do" - the structural barriers which have been erected on class lines as dictated almost exclusively by economic factors doesn't care for your questions. If you're willingly ignorant of such facts then the truth is that you're just being criminally naive. Constructively naive, even.
"You're the whitemans burden, and you have a chip on your shoulder."

I spent the formative years of my life in a block of flats, and I done a teaching course when I was younger to teach people conversational Irish, and taught Irish in a local community centre for a period. My mother worked in the Jervis Street Clinic, before the 1st methadone clinic was established in Pearse Street in 1988, as a shop steward in the factory which I left school when I was 16 to work in, and she also worked in a Homework Club for Traveler children. My sister teaches kids and my grandfathers brother taught in Trinity. Two community houses I ran Irish groups in, the homework club and the nursery school are all gone. I also published my own local bilingual newsletter with lessons in basic Irish and nursery rhymes. Two people who assisted with that went on to become teachers, another lad went on to become a politician and another teenager I taught during that period of my life told me recently that he teaches in the inner city. The only time I ever gave out to my child was when they missed school. Under different circumstances, I probably would've taken up teaching as a profession, but I was born for the fields and not the hedges..

Whatever about third level, state funding of primary and second level is skewed towards the under privileged.
I went on my 1st march against government cuts in education when I was 4, and the school I went to didn't secure their own grounds until I after I had left.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Working class is a belittling label put on people of low income by the left to install victimhood.
I've never heard a brickie, a chippie or a spark on a building site define themselves as working class, and I think it has become a somewhat redundant term, much in the same way proletariat has become redundant, but I think it;s laughable to suggest that there is any truth in the proposition that 70% of Irish people are middle-class, as Leo Varadkar claimed recently. It's smart politiking, but it also tells you everything you need to know about Leo. I also think the proposition that we're divided into 1% and 99% is laughable. The truth is closer to the opposite of what Varadkar claimed, with the working class and the lower class consisting of approximately 70% of the population. All TD's are part of the upper classes, just like all landlords and bankers are, albeit at different levels, some of which over-lap and co-relate, as is the case with Higgins who is an upper class politician and a lower class landlord at the same time, and also part of the ruling class for the past 40-50 years. If I enter the Dáil tomorrow I can't claim that I'm still a brickies labourer from the working class, when that clearly wouldn't be the case. That applies to every politician. The important point is that there is such a thing as class, and it's a necessary label in academic settings and also in discussions such as this, when it comes to weighing up the causes of depression, blah, and understanding how Intersectionalist Post Modern Radical Left Wing Middle Class Feminists committed genocide against Working Class Men.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Rubbish. The biggest barrier to working class kids is people with attitudes like yours.
I knew I was forgetting something, but before I shoot the crow: I missed the era of the x'tian brothers, but there's often been people on here over 50 or 60 who have horror stories going way back, and the abuse they suffered became trans-generational insofar as the following generations had a bad attitude towards authority, which they sometimes associated with the contemporary teaching professions.
 

Orbit v2

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Why does the state provide subsidies to elitist fee paying schools if that is the case?
There isn't a simple answer to that question. I didn't go to a fee paying school (it's actually a Deis school now. So, I guess that might fit the definition of "working class"). None of my kids did either. So, I don't hold a candle for fee paying schools. The question you have to answer is do you want to drag these (it has to be said) highly successful schools down to the same level as the rest. There are arguments for and against. I would be opposed to any new fee paying schools starting up, receiving state subsidies though. The problem as well is that (and this relates to my point about attitude), the single greatest benefit of fee-paying schools is not better teachers, it's more motivated parents and kids. That rubs off on other kids generally. So, even if you take away fees, what will happen? The schools will lose a few teachers and drop some extra curricular activities, but you'll still have the same kids and parents involved, and the same advantage accruing from that.

I stand over my comment. State spending on primary and secondary education is skewed towards the under privileged. The state bends over backwards to try and redress inequality but, the so-called middle-classes will always compete with whatever tools at their disposal to get their kids ahead of the rest. The current scandal emerging in the US, over a fraudulent college entry scheme is that taken to an extraordinary extreme. I'm sure the state could do more, but sometimes I think people should acknowledge what is done, instead of always denigrating it.
 

toughbutfair

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Don’t understand the O.P. Suggesting that something has risen since 2012 due to austerity? The economy is better now than in 2012.
 

toughbutfair

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Some element of this is people who need treatment being diagnosed whereas before they weren’t. Another is doctors overprescribing drugs to people with more money now than ever.
 

reg11

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It seems to me that there has to be a connection between a sharp rise in prescriptions for mind altering chemicals and the smoking ban?

I remember seeing a Primetime piece on the rise of tranquilliser prescriptions which seemed to correlate with the decline in smoking in the population.

There has been much back slapping about how great we dumb Irish were to start a crusade against smoking, disregarding that it was New York where it first began. The eradication of something that aided good social interaction in the workplace that was conducive to alleviating stress clearly had to be substituted by something else. Even something like flying went from being enjoyable to being dull and boring and maybe even an ordeal for some. Likewise the pub scene lost it's gloss. It all served to alienate us from one another. Of course, the vacuum gets filled by something else. That's not to say that smoking isn't bad for one. It is, but the net gain may be outweighed by the corresponding loss both at an individual and societal level.

I think the OP'er was trying to pin the depression problem on the present government, when he really should go back a bit to lay the blame where it belongs.
 

Sweet Darling

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Rubbish. The biggest barrier to working class kids is people with attitudes like yours.

There is no upper class in Ireland. 'Middle class' and 'working class' are labels people apply to themselves and I question the motivation of people who do - usually either snobbery or reverse snobbery.
Some of these "IT" girls from middleclass homes in nice parts of Dublin have boggers for parents
 

Sweet Darling

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It seems to me that there has to be a connection between a sharp rise in prescriptions for mind altering chemicals and the smoking ban?

I remember seeing a Primetime piece on the rise of tranquilliser prescriptions which seemed to correlate with the decline in smoking in the population.

There has been much back slapping about how great we dumb Irish were to start a crusade against smoking, disregarding that it was New York where it first began. The eradication of something that aided good social interaction in the workplace that was conducive to alleviating stress clearly had to be substituted by something else. Even something like flying went from being enjoyable to being dull and boring and maybe even an ordeal for some. Likewise the pub scene lost it's gloss. It all served to alienate us from one another. Of course, the vacuum gets filled by something else. That's not to say that smoking isn't bad for one. It is, but the net gain may be outweighed by the corresponding loss both at an individual and societal level.

I think the OP'er was trying to pin the depression problem on the present government, when he really should go back a bit to lay the blame where it belongs.
I often wonder how many of our youth who suffer depression come from homes with "Career" have it all modern cosmo mothers.
 

APettigrew92

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There isn't a simple answer to that question. I didn't go to a fee paying school (it's actually a Deis school now. So, I guess that might fit the definition of "working class"). None of my kids did either. So, I don't hold a candle for fee paying schools.
You obviously do. Perhaps because you, in the finest of inverted senses of self-entitlement, lament that the success you had didn't come to you as easily as it could have had you won the genetic lottery and found yourself in a comfortable middle-class background. This is a common refrain from successful people from not-so-successful backgrounds.

The question you have to answer is do you want to drag these (it has to be said) highly successful schools down to the same level as the rest. There are arguments for and against. I would be opposed to any new fee paying schools starting up, receiving state subsidies though.
The single argument that should matter is that Ireland is not some bucktooth Constitutional Monarchy like the British nor is it a hyper-capitalist nation like the USA. It is a republic. Every Irishman and woman is entitled to equal and fair treatment under the law. Not a single revolutionary took a bullet to preserve the hereditary privileges of Wesley College or Clongowes.

It is unconscionable that taxes paid by the majority of the population are funneled into schools that they themselves have no actual access to.

The problem as well is that (and this relates to my point about attitude), the single greatest benefit of fee-paying schools is not better teachers, it's more motivated parents and kids. That rubs off on other kids generally. So, even if you take away fees, what will happen? The schools will lose a few teachers and drop some extra curricular activities, but you'll still have the same kids and parents involved, and the same advantage accruing from that.
Motivation? Pray tell, how did you go to a Deis school and, you know, not end up slinging dope down by the Grand Canal? Was it perhaps that you were motivated to make something of yourself? You're literally in the Malthusian paradigm, aren't you? "It's not that these kids/parents have innumerable advantages over underfunded schools in deprived areas, it's just that their attitude/motivation is lacking."

I'm sure the two-week vacations in the South of France and the higher quality of teacher attracted to private schools has nothing to do with potential advantages over their counterparts.

I stand over my comment. State spending on primary and secondary education is skewed towards the under privileged. The state bends over backwards to try and redress inequality but, the so-called middle-classes will always compete with whatever tools at their disposal to get their kids ahead of the rest. I'm sure the state could do more, but sometimes I think people should acknowledge what is done, instead of always denigrating it.
Jesus. How do you unpack that one. Finance is the number one indicator of success. You can deduce the likelihood of a child advancing to higher education based on their parents' income. Social inequality stem from economic inequality. I graduated from a secondary school in North Dublin in 2011. There were 120 students taking the LC. 12 went to third-level institutions. 12. That's appalling. That would set off alarms in any other country in Western Europe. Not Dublin.

Looks as if you're stealing inspiration from the lads who said the economy was only going to get better in 2006. How you can honestly say that imperfect systems should remain so based on your denial of their severity is beyond me.

Looks like those who benefit from the system remaining the same have brainwashed you quite effectively indeed. Would you consider yourself motivated?
 


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