Dept of Education to review how Irish exemptions are granted

Schuhart

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Story here:
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dept-of-education-to-review-how-irish-exemptions-are-granted-848748.html

I had to laugh (and start a thread) over this bit
Almost 60% of the 3,851 pupils who were granted an exemption from Irish in 2016 went on to study languages such as French, German or Spanish.

A psychologists report is required to secure an exemption, however these are now being queried by senior educational figures, with some believing the system is being "gamed".
Did anyone seriously think the system wasn't being gamed? Did anyone seriously believe that nearly 4,000 students had some defect that made them incapable of learning languages?

Or was it just that no-one wanted to confront the issue?

Answers on a postcard.

Sorry, I just found it a really peculiar way of putting it. I mean, of course the system was gamed. Of course health professionals will sign off on anything that you pay them to sign off on, so long as they won't be sued. WTF?
 


buttercookie

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Irish should be completely optional to study in secondary school and if it was the children who are weak at english wouldnt have to hand over five hundred euros to a psychologist for a report.

Some of the reports are printed off a word processor and ten children will get the same report word for word.
 

Prester Jim

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Story here:
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dept-of-education-to-review-how-irish-exemptions-are-granted-848748.html

I had to laugh (and start a thread) over this bitDid anyone seriously think the system wasn't being gamed? Did anyone seriously believe that nearly 4,000 students had some defect that made them incapable of learning languages?

Or was it just that no-one wanted to confront the issue?

Answers on a postcard.

Sorry, I just found it a really peculiar way of putting it. I mean, of course the system was gamed. Of course health professionals will sign off on anything that you pay them to sign off on, so long as they won't be sued. WTF?
There is a severe disconnect between the DoES and reality. Every teacher knows and could have told them about the fact that it is gamed.
 

livingstone

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The fact that they studied other languages doesn't really say much.

For some people, studying languages is made exponentially harder because of, for example, dyslexia. Some students, as a result, do not study languages. Others decide that they can put in the effort for one language but not two or three, and so they choose the one that will be of most value to them in career terms.
 

fifilawe

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Dept of Education to review how Irish exemptions are granted

Story here:
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...ed-848748.html

I had to laugh (and start a thread) over this bit......


Well OP I had to laugh when you quoted the website above as a "Reliable , resource for news ....." why don't you use similar "reliable sources " as Joe.ie, beaut.ie , thejournal.ie .............................................
they are all copy and paste jobs with a few words edited to make 'em seem real.
 

Schuhart

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Well OP I had to laugh when you quoted the website above as a "Reliable , resource for news ....." why don't you use similar "reliable sources " as Joe.ie, beaut.ie , thejournal.ie .............................................
they are all copy and paste jobs with a few words edited to make 'em seem real.
I don't particularly get the point you want to make.

Would you prefer?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/thousands-exempt-from-irish-sitting-other-language-exams-1.3529550

Or

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dept-of-education-to-review-how-irish-exemptions-are-granted-848748.html

Or

Dept. To Review How It Grants Irish Language Exemptions. | Kfm Radio

Pretty much word for word the same story, as you say. Are you suggesting the story is inaccurate in some way?
 

A Voice

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The fact that they studied other languages doesn't really say much.

For some people, studying languages is made exponentially harder because of, for example, dyslexia. Some students, as a result, do not study languages. Others decide that they can put in the effort for one language but not two or three, and so they choose the one that will be of most value to them in career terms.
Which really has nothing to do with dyslexia at that point.
 

mr_anderson

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They need to stop compulsory Irish for the LC.

Trying to ram down 'culture' & 'heritage' at one of the most stressful times in a persons life simply doesn't work.
It's no surprise there's such a negative attitude towards the language.

Nor is there any surprise the lengths parents go to get an exemption for their kids.

Long past the time to make it optional.
 

fifilawe

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these websites do not produce anything of any journalistic value they are simply copying the work of "real news sources and putting their 2c of value on it " to get clicks.They don't employ journalists , they employ computer operators who do copy, edit , and paste jobs on others' work.In school examinations parlance they are guilty of plagiarism.
just consider if a reputable "News Source" leaked a "False World Exclusive with all bells and whistles" to find out who is just free-riding on their work.Within an hour or two " copycat websites would have their own version of the story with just small print links to the source of the story.Which company is to to pay damages to the parties defamed in the "stories released " to the world.?
 
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Skin the Goat

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Irish should be completely optional to study in secondary school and if it was the children who are weak at english wouldnt have to hand over five hundred euros to a psychologist for a report.

Some of the reports are printed off a word processor and ten children will get the same report word for word.
Well, I suppose it's better than a mimeograph :)
 

Lord Talbot

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Ireland is an English speaking country. Our first language is English.
 

Lagertha

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English is our main language , but Gaeilge is/was our first language, there is a difference má thuigeann tú leat mé.
Most Irish people, including myself, speak very little Irish and understand even less of it when we hear it spoken or see it written down. I have no idea what the English translation for most of the names of local housing estates is because they are in Irish and I don't speak Irish. It is time to make the Irish language an optional subject and use the time it takes up in the average school day for more practical things like extra classes in math or other subjects which many children struggle with. While we're at it we can get rid of all religious lessons of all denominations too and replace it with something else.
 

macedo

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these websites do not produce anything of any journalistic value they are simply copying the work of "real news sources and putting their 2c of value on it " to get clicks.They don't employ journalists , they employ computer operators who do copy, edit , and paste jobs on others' work.In school examinations parlance they are guilty of plagiarism.
just consider if a reputable "News Source" leaked a "False World Exclusive with all bells and whistles" to find out who is just free-riding on their work.Within an hour or two " copycat websites would have their own version of the story with just small print links to the source of the story.Which company is to to pay damages to the parties defamed in the "stories released " to the world.?
Are you only referring to online news? Does the fact the printed IT had an article on this issue by its Education editor on its front page count for anything in your opinion?

If, as I suspect, not, I'd be curious to know what your idea of "real news sources" is.
 

Schuhart

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these websites do not produce anything of any journalistic value they are simply copying the work of "real news sources and putting their 2c of value on it " to get clicks.
Grand, matter for a completely different topic as this thread is concerned with the substance of the story and not whether it was penned by Marvin the Paranoid Android.
 

recedite

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One third of the pupils in my kids class (primary school) had dyslexia certs to avoid mandatory Irish. Its farcical.
 

livingstone

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Which really has nothing to do with dyslexia at that point.
Of course it does.

The fact is that for someone with dyslexia, the difficulty associated with learning two languages may simply not be sustainable. The difficulty with learning one language may just about be tolerable for some.

For those kids, we have a choice:

(a) tell them unless they are prepared to learn two languages, they can't do any

(b) tell them that unlike their peers, because of a specific learning condition, they have to leave school without a useful European language because we insist that they use their available bandwidth to learn Irish instead
 

A Voice

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Of course it does.

The fact is that for someone with dyslexia, the difficulty associated with learning two languages may simply not be sustainable. The difficulty with learning one language may just about be tolerable for some.

For those kids, we have a choice:

(a) tell them unless they are prepared to learn two languages, they can't do any

(b) tell them that unlike their peers, because of a specific learning condition, they have to leave school without a useful European language because we insist that they use their available bandwidth to learn Irish instead
No, it doesn't.

I've highlighted what it's about, from your own mouth.

If it was about dyslexia, then the issue would, and should, arise for all subjects. Dyslexia is not a language-specific issue; it is a written discourse issue. To get a legitimate dyslexia exemption, you need to have problems with spelling that affect any discipline that requires extensive reading and writing. English, history, and geography will top that list.
 

recedite

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Of course it does.

The fact is that for someone with dyslexia, the difficulty associated with learning two languages may simply not be sustainable. The difficulty with learning one language may just about be tolerable for some.

For those kids, we have a choice:

(a) tell them unless they are prepared to learn two languages, they can't do any

(b) tell them that unlike their peers, because of a specific learning condition, they have to leave school without a useful European language because we insist that they use their available bandwidth to learn Irish instead
You're living in cloud cuckoo land. Humans don't have "available bandwidth".
There may well be a tiny minority who have such difficulty with languages that they should be excused from learning them.
The fact that large numbers are obtaining certs to avoid irish, but still going on to study living languages is nothing to do with that.
Its because they see Irish as a waste of time and effort. There is no justification for making it mandatory in this day and age. Edward AKA Eamon De Valera is long dead.
Interesting fact BTW, the name Sinead was invented by Dev for his wife because there was no Irish version of Jane at the time.
 


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