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Dept. of Health Report and the Minister


ger12

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Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,255
The Irish Times reported yesterday on the findings of a report commissioned by the Department of Health. It turns out that ....

1. Figures show that Irish GPs are the highest paid in the OECD and earn the second highest multiple of average wages

2. Ireland is the only EU health system that does not offer universal coverage of primary care. Gaps in health coverage create financial barriers to access, particularly for those just above the threshold for medical cards

3. Ireland is one of only three countries to charge “non-poor” households for essential prescription drugs and one of only six to charge for attending hospital emergency departments. It says the hospital charge is much higher than elsewhere – €100 compared to only €2-€30 in other countries that charge

4. Commonly used medicines cost up to 24 times more in Ireland than they do in New Zealand (comparable in size)

5. It costs €51 on average to visit a GP here compared to €22 in France. In fact last year the man from the IMF pointed out at a press conference that a GP visit costs double in this country than many other European countries

The authors warn that efficiency gains from planned and additional reforms will not be sufficient to fund Minister for Health Dr James Reilly’s ambitious plans to provide universal access to primary care and strengthen services.

Another fine mess. Nearly two years into his Ministry and Dr Reilly has not addressed these in any real terms. To date the IMO (which represents GP's) has had no discussions regarding the promised medical cards for 56,000 patients with long-term illness (like CF or MS). The Troika pushed him to allow all GP's treat medical card patients.

So what has James been doing for the last nearly two years?

Was the FG manifesto on health really just a nice looking brochure that James actually had no intention of implementing?

Seriously, UHI, free GP care .... was it all a simple election promise that James had no real intention of following through on? Should "we" be listening very carefully now to what Ms Shortall has to say? Have Labour foolishly ignored Ms Shortall?

A speech given by journalist, broadcaster and health policy analyst Sara Burke (as an independent commentator) to Fianna Fail’s first annual policy conference about current government health policy is well worth a read.

A critique of government progress to date « SaraBurke.com

Irish medicines up to 24 times dearer than in New Zealand | The Irish Times
Cuts are destroying healthcare, says Reilly - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 30, 2012
http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/FairCaredocument.pdf
 
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willow68

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Feb 8, 2012
Messages
1,936
Ridiculous. I thought prevention was cheaper than major intervention to cure. I myself haven't been to my GP in years...not at those prices. If something goes wrong (hope not..) they'll have to cart me to the hospital (a good 80 mins drive away..). No medical cards for yours truly.
 

Belodedici

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
785
Thanks for posting this, sums up the issues facing people without medical cards perfectly and therefore, the report will be ignored by the IMO, Minister for Health, HSE and the establishment
 

nakatomi

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Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,729
The Irish Times reported yesterday on a report commission by the Department of Health. It turns out that ....

1. The report points to figures that show Irish GPs are the highest paid in the OECD and earn the second highest multiple of average wages

2. Ireland is the only EU health system that does not offer universal coverage of primary care. Gaps in health coverage create financial barriers to access, particularly for those just above the threshold for medical cards

3. Ireland is one of only three countries to charge “non-poor” households for essential prescription drugs and one of only six to charge for attending hospital emergency departments. It says the hospital charge is much higher than elsewhere – €100 compared to only €2-€30 in other countries that charge

4. Commonly used medicines cost up to 24 times more in Ireland than they do in New Zealand (comparable in size)

5. It costs €51 on average to visit a GP here compared to €22 in France. In fact last year the man from the IMF pointed out at a press conference that a GP visit costs double in this country than many other European countries

The authors warn that efficiency gains from planned and additional reforms will not be sufficient to fund Minister for Health Dr James Reilly’s ambitious plans to provide universal access to primary care and strengthen services.

Another fine mess. Nearly two years into his Ministry and Dr Reilly has not addressed these in any real terms. To date the IMO (which represents GP's) has had no discussions regarding the promised medical cards for 56,000 patients with long-term illness (like CF or MS). The Troika pushed him to allow all GP's treat medical card patients.

So what has James been doing for the last nearly two years?

Was the FG manifesto on health really just a nice looking brochure that James actually had no intention of implementing?

Seriously, UHI, free GP care .... was it all a simple election promise that James had no real intention of following through on? Should "we" be listening very carefully now to what Ms Shortall has to say?

A speech given by journalist, broadcaster and health policy analyst Sara Burke (as an independent commentator) to Fianna Fail’s first annual policy conference about current government health policy is well worth a read.

A critique of government progress to date « SaraBurke.com

Irish medicines up to 24 times dearer than in New Zealand | The Irish Times
Cuts are destroying healthcare, says Reilly - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 30, 2012
http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/FairCaredocument.pdf

I could not find a link to GP pay

http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/BriefingNoteIRELAND2012.pdf

It seems strange that GPs are leaving to go abroad for better pay.
 

corporal punishment

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Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
2,889
Ridiculous. I thought prevention was cheaper than major intervention to cure. I myself haven't been to my GP in years...not at those prices. If something goes wrong (hope not..) they'll have to cart me to the hospital (a good 80 mins drive away..). No medical cards for yours truly.
Not even for regular check ups?. Early symptoms of serious conditions are often spotted during routine health screenings.
I'd get myself down for a check up pronto if I we're you. Expensive yes, but cheaper in the long run if you have something nasty brewing.
 

ger12

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Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,255

captainwillard

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Mar 2, 2010
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Encourage your children to study medicine is the clear message here. This thread belongs in the education forum
 

Blossie

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Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
671
Absolutely ridiculous. People just simply cannot afford to go to the doctor, surely it is more expensive in the long run as if minor ailments are missed then it means a trip to hospital and costs the state much more.Even if a person can scrape together the 50 euro to see the doctor then you get another boot up the backside when you have to fork out at the chemist. I pay 132 at the chemist each and every month.Our so called health care is a joke.
 

nakatomi

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Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,729
Paul Cullen reported on this DoH document but no link was given and it's unclear as to whether it has been published yet.
As there are negotiations ongoing regarding pay for GPs , I would be suspicious of any spin.

It would be good to see the source for this.
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
In the past year or so I've given up health insurance as the premiums keep rising.

Last year I visited the A&E of a hospital as I felt very unwell. I was briefly seen by a nurse and told the doctor wold be available in 12 hours. . At approximately 8am the following morning. Gave up on that and went home. Received a bill for €100. Never paid it as I received no medical treatment from a doctor. Received a "pay up or else" letter this week. . .

All week I've had a sore throat that an antibiotic would help with but I'm not prepared to pay the 50 euro GP fee for five minutes of their time. Why, as a qualified chemist, I should be paying that is always a mystery.

This is the reality for those in Ireland who are routinely screwed by various governments in taxation but who receive little in return for their taxes.......
 

ger12

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,255
As there are negotiations ongoing regarding pay for GPs , I would be suspicious of any spin.

It would be good to see the source for this.
First they came for the hospital consultants, then the GP's, then the nurses .......

Minister Reillys failure to tackle the issues in the report reflects poorly on him.
 

nakatomi

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http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/download/8111101ec023.pdf?expires=1354263635&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=0648E42378BBCEDFC2C849168690FCBA
http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/03/04/index.html;jsessionid=2ps3osemtuc2.delta?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/health_glance-2011-23-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/19991312&accessItemIds=/content/book/health_glance-2011-en&mimeType=text/html
These figures are from 2009, and include an overestimation put Irish GPs in equal 3rd.
In Ireland, the data for self- employed GPs include practice expenses, resulting in an over-estimation.
Not sure where they get the highest pay bit. And given the 20% pay cut they have already taken I would doubt these figures ( from 2008) are accurate.
 
Last edited:

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,255
In the past year or so I've given up health insurance as the premiums keep rising.

Last year I visited the A&E of a hospital as I felt very unwell. I was briefly seen by a nurse and told the doctor wold be available in 12 hours. . At approximately 8am the following morning. Gave up on that and went home. Received a bill for €100. Never paid it as I received no medical treatment from a doctor. Received a "pay up or else" letter this week. . .

All week I've had a sore throat that an antibiotic would help with but I'm not prepared to pay the 50 euro GP fee for five minutes of their time. Why, as a qualified chemist, I should be paying that is always a mystery.

This is the reality for those in Ireland who are routinely screwed by various governments in taxation but who receive little in return for their taxes.......
Health insurance will continue to rise. It will be the very last thing I'll give up though.
 

nakatomi

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Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,729
In the past year or so I've given up health insurance as the premiums keep rising.

Last year I visited the A&E of a hospital as I felt very unwell. I was briefly seen by a nurse and told the doctor wold be available in 12 hours. . At approximately 8am the following morning. Gave up on that and went home. Received a bill for €100. Never paid it as I received no medical treatment from a doctor. Received a "pay up or else" letter this week. . .

All week I've had a sore throat that an antibiotic would help with but I'm not prepared to pay the 50 euro GP fee for five minutes of their time. Why, as a qualified chemist, I should be paying that is always a mystery.

This is the reality for those in Ireland who are routinely screwed by various governments in taxation but who receive little in return for their taxes.......
When you say you "felt unwell" - why did you go to A&E?

As for an antibiotic helping your sore throat?
 

zzzdr

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Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
1,682
In the past year or so I've given up health insurance as the premiums keep rising.

Last year I visited the A&E of a hospital as I felt very unwell. I was briefly seen by a nurse and told the doctor wold be available in 12 hours. . At approximately 8am the following morning. Gave up on that and went home. Received a bill for €100. Never paid it as I received no medical treatment from a doctor. Received a "pay up or else" letter this week. . .

All week I've had a sore throat that an antibiotic would help with but I'm not prepared to pay the 50 euro GP fee for five minutes of their time. Why, as a qualified chemist, I should be paying that is always a mystery.

This is the reality for those in Ireland who are routinely screwed by various governments in taxation but who receive little in return for their taxes.......
What should a gp charge?
 

corporal punishment

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Nov 22, 2010
Messages
2,889
When you say you "felt unwell" - why did you go to A&E?

As for an antibiotic helping your sore throat?
My wife felt unwell for a week and went to her GP who immediately sent her to A+E. It was meningitis. Robert was simply cutting out the €50 middleman, and yes, unbelievably, antibiotics do cure throat infections. Who knew.
 

corporal punishment

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Nov 22, 2010
Messages
2,889
What should a gp charge?
Less than €50???? Unless GP's are charging people for time spent in the waiting room then €50 is a bit excessive considering you then have to shell out another considerable sum at the chemist for something that is probably half the cost over the counter in most other european countries. We are being fleeced.
 

Tweek

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Jun 7, 2009
Messages
929
That €22 in France is the price everybody pays on the universal healthcare scheme. If we had similar in Ireland the fee would similar or most likely less, as GMS patients payments are a fraction of that based on the average attendance rate.
 

zzzdr

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Apr 22, 2010
Messages
1,682
Less than €50???? Is this a complicated concept for you?
49 euro? 2 euro?

How much is a dental check up?

A meeting with your accountant?

A fortune teller?

You pay for the expertise.

You may be right, you may have needed antibiotics, but you need an objective, trained opinion.

Which costs money.
 
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