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Did Fianna Fáil help create the Provisional IRA?


Honecker

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Following the failure of the border campaign 1956-62, the IRA leadership began to foresee the necessity of moving away from a narrow militarist strategy and pay attention to material concerns of people such as housing, unemployment and public services. Examples from places like Cuba and Vietnam showed that successful national liberation movements could be built from combining socialists and anti-imperialists. Increasingly the IRA became involved in the Dublin Housing Action Committees and industrial disputes. This helped win new Republican supporters among young left radicals and working class people. But not everyone was happy. Fianna Fáil was disturbed that the Republican movement was now criticising their economic policies and getting involved in campaigns against their landlord friends and business pals. Some of the more traditional republicans were also concerned that the IRA were neglecting the armed struggle in favour of street politics. Some conspiracy theorists in the Republican movements even believed leading IRA figures like Cathal Goulding were being brainwashed by communists. Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the IRA was being taken over by communists. Although before the 1969 general election Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the Labour Party was run by Chairman Mao.

The events of 1969 saw Fianna Fáil gombeen men and conservative republicans join together. The conservative republicans who would form the Provisional IRA essentially just wanted a 32 county version of catholic Ireland rather than a revolution. Fianna Fáil offered money and arms to right wing republicans on the basis they abandoned socialist politics and overthrew the leadership. Money was put in IRA accounts in banks in border towns that only right wing republicans had access too.

Looking at the demographics of the split, it seems to confirm the theory that Fianna Fáil spawned the provos. Younger, better educated and more progressive Republicans stuck with the Officials. Older, conservative, more religious and rural republicans were more likely to support the provisionals. Fianna Fáil was delighted with the provos because they returned the focus of struggle to the 6 counties and they stopped trying to change the gombeen Free State. Given the type of people who formed the provos it was inevitable they would become involved in sectarian murder and mindless killings. The likes of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Sean Mac Stiofain backed up by gombeen Fianna Fáil would create a monster. The provos were FF's Frankenstein's Monster.
 
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harshreality

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Not necessarily, perhaps they thought all those guns were for pheasant shooting:)
 

Heligoland

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I didn't realise you wrote fiction. Very good.

I'm not sure why the title is in the form of a question though, since you have clearly made up your mind what the answer is.

Still, cracking read.

You should try it as non-fiction, but then of course you'd have to provide some references to back up this stuff, and that might be hard.
 

Catalpast

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Nov 17, 2012
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Following the failure of the border campaign 1956-62, the IRA leadership began to foresee the necessity of moving away from a narrow militarist strategy and pay attention to material concerns of people such as housing, unemployment and public services. Examples from places like Cuba and Vietnam showed that successful national liberation movements could be built from combining socialists and anti-imperialists. Increasingly the IRA became involved in the Dublin Housing Action Committees and industrial disputes. This helped win new Republican supporters among young left radicals and working class people. But not everyone was happy. Fianna Fáil was disturbed that the Republican movement was now criticising their economic policies and getting involved in campaigns against their landlord friends and business pals. Some of the more traditional republicans were also concerned that the IRA were neglecting the armed struggle in favour of street politics. Some conspiracy theorists in the Republican movements even believed leading IRA figures like Cathal Goulding were being brainwashed by communists. Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the IRA was being taken over by communists. Although before the 1969 general election Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the Labour Party was run by Chairman Mao.

The events of 1969 saw Fianna Fáil gombeen men and conservative republicans join together. The conservative republicans who would form the Provisional IRA essentially just wanted a 32 county version of catholic Ireland rather than a revolution. Fianna Fáil offered money and arms to right wing republicans on the basis they abandoned socialist politics and overthrew the leadership. Money was put in IRA accounts in banks in border towns that only right wing republicans had access too.

Looking at the demographics of the split, it seems to confirm the theory that Fianna Fáil spawned the provos. Younger, better educated and more progressive Republicans stuck with the Officials. Older, conservative, more religious and rural republicans were more likely to support the provisionals. Fianna Fáil was delighted with the provos because they returned the focus of struggle to the 6 counties and stopped trying to change the gombeen Free State. Given the type of people who formed the provos it was inevitable they would become involved in sectarian murder and mindless killings. The likes of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Sean Mac Stiofain backed up by gombeen Fianna Fáil would create a monster. The provos were FF's Frankenstein's Monster.
They played a hand but the Provos would have been born anyway even without this charming set of midwives...:cool:
 

Honecker

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Oct 19, 2012
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I didn't realise you wrote fiction. Very good.

I'm not sure why the title is in the form of a question though, since you have clearly made up your mind what the answer is.

Still, cracking read.

You should try it as non-fiction, but then of course you'd have to provide some references to back up this stuff, and that might be hard.
So you dispute that Fianna Fáil were providing the provos were money and guns? Did you ever hear of the arms trial? Haughey and his pals were involved in many fundraising efforts for the provos.
 

Danny10

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The likes of O Bradaign and MacStiofain wanted to overthrow both of the states in Ireland. Most of the original Provisional leadership were children of Civil War generation, they were bitterly opposed to the southern state.

The guns that were provided by elements of the Fianna Fáil Government (via Captain James Kelly) were all supplied prior to the Provisional/Official split and many of them were personally picked up by none other than Cathal Goulding from Dublin's docks. (as is noted in 'The Lost Revolution' by Brian Hanely & Scott Millar).

Your analysis is an interesting story, but nothing to do with historical fact.
 

Heligoland

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So you dispute that Fianna Fáil were providing the provos were money and guns? Did you ever hear of the arms trial? Haughey and his pals were involved in many fundraising efforts for the provos.
So where is your proof? Let's start with these bank accounts. Got anything to back that up?
 

Honecker

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So where is your proof? Let's start with these bank accounts. Got anything to back that up?
I thought it was common knowledge at this stage. It is mentioned in many books including "The Longest War" by Kevin Kelley.
 

Nedz Newt

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Apr 8, 2007
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3,451
Did FF create the Provisional IRA?

Weren't you listening to Enda Kenny today - OF COURSE FF created the Provisional IRA, they caused the famine, the great flood, the plague of locusts, the slaughter of every first born child and the flight to Egypt too.

Baaaastards!

Thankfully, we have Enda to sort it all out, and if it takes him a while, clearly that;s FF's fault too.
 

Heligoland

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All sorts of incredible things are mentioned in books about the IRA.

What is the proof though? Are there references in your book to identify these bank accounts? Who were the people who had control of them and how do you know who they were allied with?
 

Fra_south_Derry

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Jun 9, 2009
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50 years of mass discrimination again the catholic population, plus sectarian uvf murders and the ira standing by while street after street of catholics where burned out of their homes created the provisional ira.

"Out the ashes rose the provisional ira" gives it away.
 

between the bridges

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State sponsored terrorism and collusion, well i never...
 

harshreality

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All sorts of incredible things are mentioned in books about the IRA.

What is the proof though? Are there references in your book to identify these bank accounts? Who were the people who had control of them and how do you know who they were allied with?
Hehe, if you erase the first section of your post the rest of it sounds like a Bertie quote:)
 

onlyasking

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Dec 19, 2008
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Following the failure of the border campaign 1956-62, the IRA leadership began to foresee the necessity of moving away from a narrow militarist strategy and pay attention to material concerns of people such as housing, unemployment and public services. Examples from places like Cuba and Vietnam showed that successful national liberation movements could be built from combining socialists and anti-imperialists. Increasingly the IRA became involved in the Dublin Housing Action Committees and industrial disputes. This helped win new Republican supporters among young left radicals and working class people. But not everyone was happy. Fianna Fáil was disturbed that the Republican movement was now criticising their economic policies and getting involved in campaigns against their landlord friends and business pals. Some of the more traditional republicans were also concerned that the IRA were neglecting the armed struggle in favour of street politics. Some conspiracy theorists in the Republican movements even believed leading IRA figures like Cathal Goulding were being brainwashed by communists. Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the IRA was being taken over by communists. Although before the 1969 general election Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the Labour Party was run by Chairman Mao.

The events of 1969 saw Fianna Fáil gombeen men and conservative republicans join together. The conservative republicans who would form the Provisional IRA essentially just wanted a 32 county version of catholic Ireland rather than a revolution. Fianna Fáil offered money and arms to right wing republicans on the basis they abandoned socialist politics and overthrew the leadership. Money was put in IRA accounts in banks in border towns that only right wing republicans had access too.

Looking at the demographics of the split, it seems to confirm the theory that Fianna Fáil spawned the provos. Younger, better educated and more progressive Republicans stuck with the Officials. Older, conservative, more religious and rural republicans were more likely to support the provisionals. Fianna Fáil was delighted with the provos because they returned the focus of struggle to the 6 counties and they stopped trying to change the gombeen Free State. Given the type of people who formed the provos it was inevitable they would become involved in sectarian murder and mindless killings. The likes of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Sean Mac Stiofain backed up by gombeen Fianna Fáil would create a monster. The provos were FF's Frankenstein's Monster.
Funny, I thought FF tried to crush the few members who tried to help the northern minority to defend itself when unionists launched the conflict.

Don't let facts get in your way.
 
S

SeamusNapoleon

Following the failure of the border campaign 1956-62, the IRA leadership began to foresee the necessity of moving away from a narrow militarist strategy and pay attention to material concerns of people such as housing, unemployment and public services. Examples from places like Cuba and Vietnam showed that successful national liberation movements could be built from combining socialists and anti-imperialists. Increasingly the IRA became involved in the Dublin Housing Action Committees and industrial disputes. This helped win new Republican supporters among young left radicals and working class people. But not everyone was happy. Fianna Fáil was disturbed that the Republican movement was now criticising their economic policies and getting involved in campaigns against their landlord friends and business pals. Some of the more traditional republicans were also concerned that the IRA were neglecting the armed struggle in favour of street politics. Some conspiracy theorists in the Republican movements even believed leading IRA figures like Cathal Goulding were being brainwashed by communists. Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the IRA was being taken over by communists. Although before the 1969 general election Fianna Fáil also tried to claim the Labour Party was run by Chairman Mao.

The events of 1969 saw Fianna Fáil gombeen men and conservative republicans join together. The conservative republicans who would form the Provisional IRA essentially just wanted a 32 county version of catholic Ireland rather than a revolution. Fianna Fáil offered money and arms to right wing republicans on the basis they abandoned socialist politics and overthrew the leadership. Money was put in IRA accounts in banks in border towns that only right wing republicans had access too.

Looking at the demographics of the split, it seems to confirm the theory that Fianna Fáil spawned the provos. Younger, better educated and more progressive Republicans stuck with the Officials. Older, conservative, more religious and rural republicans were more likely to support the provisionals. Fianna Fáil was delighted with the provos because they returned the focus of struggle to the 6 counties and they stopped trying to change the gombeen Free State. Given the type of people who formed the provos it was inevitable they would become involved in sectarian murder and mindless killings. The likes of Ruairi O Bradaigh and Sean Mac Stiofain backed up by gombeen Fianna Fáil would create a monster. The provos were FF's Frankenstein's Monster.
A leading opening post of secondary school level information
 

onlyasking

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State sponsored terrorism and collusion, well i never...
Haughey, Blaney and Boland were "the State"?

What entity was it that put them on trial? What did the FF government which was running "the State" do with them?

Thirty years of state sponsored terrorism and collusion on the British nationalist side kinda trumps a few months of hard-man posturing on the other side.
 

between the bridges

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Haughey, Blaney and Boland were "the State"?

What entity was it that put them on trial? What did the FF government which was running "the State" do with them?

Thirty years of state sponsored terrorism and collusion on the British nationalist side kinda trumps a few months of hard-man posturing on the other side.
Methinks being a safe haven for sectarian murderers is nothing to brag about...
 

onlyasking

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Methinks being a safe haven for sectarian murderers is nothing to brag about...
It was certainly "a safe haven" for the "sectarian MASS-murderers" who slaughtered 33 children, women and men in an hour in Dublin and Monaghan in May 1974. While the Heavy Gang was in action against republicans, the Gardai quietly dumped the investigation into the state's biggest mass-murder AFTER A FEW WEEKS.

In addition, we had the Special Criminal Courts, Section 31, government silence over the Great British miscarriages of justice, co-operation with the British forces that were feeding personnel, arms and information to the British nationalist killer-gangs etc...
 

Boy M5

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The Government of Ireland Act, the shooting of Michael Collins, the discrimination in the North created the Provos.
The fact an FF government put one of its own ministers on trial suggests it wasn't official FF policy.
FF moved away from nationalism / patriotism over the years but it built on the real achievements of Cosgrave's government and helped create a state in terms of institutions
It didn't have an effective vision though for the nation, for its children / citizens. It was bread nd circuses and begrudgery oh and political dynasties with a strong dose of gombeenism.

It is apparent that elements in FF acted as midwife to the Provos.

However, both the Official and Provisional organisations, their front groups and proxies were Subversive organisations. The Stickies were entryists of the worst kind, who cared for their version of a world view, not for our nation, for its people. We were just dupes to be used.
 
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