Did outsourcing of cancer testing sentence a woman with cervical cancer to death?

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
And can any medic who doesnt want to deal with you be allowed to decline your custom.

I dont know what use medical data would be to you unless you are a medic yourself. You would have to bring it to a medic to explain terminology to you and seeing as you think all Irish medics are untrustworthy charlatans you will have to take your files on a Ryanair flight to wherever to find a foreign medic to explain your files to you.

Also arent you cribbing on about cervicalchecks being sent to shoddy third rate clinics in the States to save money rather than having expert Irish staff reviewing them here,or am I mixing you up with someone else. Now seemingly all the international experts are in the US while the Irish ones are useless. Which is it.

You still havent explained what voluntary disclosure has to do with persnal injury claims arising from car accidents.
Why on earth would i be carrying "files" when i can transfer them electronically.
Seriously the medical profession here are archaic but they're not that bad kid.

I simply pointed our Vicky Phelans reasons for not shaking Harneys hand and you went off on one as you tend to do.

Look i' know a number of people here who have visted US neurologists , sorry if you dont think its possible. Initial scans are done here then sent there and reviewed followed by a visit. Its not rocket science chap not sure why you're getting stroppy really.

As long as i'm prepared to pay i doubt a medic would refuse to serve me.

There's a big world out there no reason why one needs to confine themselves to services here if better quality services are available elsewhere.

What exactly has car accidents to do with this thread , did someone hammer your rear end?
 
Last edited:


buttercookie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
971
Transfer your files to who.

Do you mean you will ring a consultant in the States and ask him or her do they mind throwing their eye over your records, you better have a very big bank balance in your account if this is the case. I cant believe you think the Health system in the States is better than the Irish one, have you seen any hospital bills prresented to the unwell after a stay in a US hospital. You are a joke at this stage.

Or maybe go to some third world country where you might find a doctor who cant even read xrays, some of them have managed to defraud their way into Irish hospitals but luckily for us their Irish colleagues twig quickly that they have no skills and they are a danger to patients.

You linked medics involved in dodgy personal injury claims to non disclosure and Im wondering what has a minority of dishonest surgeons providing questionable medical reports got to do with open disclosure.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
Transfer your files to who.

Do you mean you will ring a consultant in the States and ask him or her do they mind throwing their eye over your records, you better have a very big bank balance in your account if this is the case. I cant believe you think the Health system in the States is better than the Irish one, have you seen any hospital bills prresented to the unwell after a stay in a US hospital. You are a joke at this stage.

Or maybe go to some third world country where you might find a doctor who cant even read xrays, some of them have managed to defraud their way into Irish hospitals but luckily for us their Irish colleagues twig quickly that they have no skills and they are a danger to patients.

You linked medics involved in dodgy personal injury claims to non disclosure and Im wondering what has a minority of dishonest surgeons providing questionable medical reports got to do with open disclosure.
Look mate top doctors in the US are vastly superior to top doctors here, how could they not be given the rewards are far higher. Many Irish consultants move to the US, while we only seem to attract those from developing countries.

I've already stated i know a number of Irish people who have visited US neurologists, i dont much care if you believe that or not.

Many top US medics will actively target international patients, indeed the institutions they work in will have specific departments to facilitate this.

I havent a notion as to why you are talking about 3rd world doctors other than as previously pointed out you have a tendency to go off on one.

The entire medical negligence system here is built on the medical and legal profession. The claims in many cases may be perfectly legitimate however dragging them out for years leads to far higher fees for both the medical and legal profession. Mandatory disclosure will shorten the time period and consequently reduce the fees garnered by the medical and legal profession. Naturally there are those who benefit significantly from the current process and they wish to block reform.
 

buttercookie

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
971
Actually, what will shorten the time here is not Mandatory Disclosure, this has very little to do with lengthy delays.

We could cut out solicitors in the morning if the State just paid out compensation without any admission of liability. This is the system in the Netherlands but the payments there are a fraction of what is awarded here but all the money goes to the person harmed.

Childbirth for example is inherently dangerous so there will always be sad tragic outcomes and villifying medical staff so they eventually leave the profession is not going to improve safety one iota.

Its rarely the medical professionals fault if things go wrong, they are understaffed and under rsourced, under resourced to the extent that fraudsters from third world countries who wouldnt be fit to wipe our highly trained medic shoes are managing to get employment here. If you really want to ensure better outcomes for patients then petition your local TD about the conditions in our hospitals.

What do you do yourself for a living, is your dislike of medical professionals and solicitors motivated by jealousy.

And back to mass screening, do you really want to put professionals off working in these schemes. Do you think villifying them for missing cancer signs is going to add anything to the safety outcomes for men and women undergoing screening. These professionals may be fallible but their work has led to falls in women dying of cervical cancer, how many more women would have died without the screening.

I may be very lucky but I have no complaints whatsoever about any consultant I have attended. I have been charged a lot of money maybe three times as much as the person who has come three times to fix my washing machine has charged me, the washing machine is still leaking though and he hasnt disclosed fully and frankly whats wrong. I know as much about washing machines as I do about complex medical issues so I have to trust washing machine man for now.

Who will I sue if washing machine dies a death on me, I think I should get a full refund for the money I have spent trying to get leak sorted. !!!!!!!
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
Actually, what will shorten the time here is not Mandatory Disclosure, this has very little to do with lengthy delays.

We could cut out solicitors in the morning if the State just paid out compensation without any admission of liability. This is the system in the Netherlands but the payments there are a fraction of what is awarded here but all th76e money goes to the person harmed.

Childbirth for example is inherently dangerous so there will always be sad tragic outcomes and villifying medical staff so they eventually leave the profession is not going to improve safety one iota.

Its rarely the medical professionals fault if things go wrong, they are understaffed and under rsourced, under resourced to the extent that fraudsters from third world countries who wouldnt be fit to wipe our highly trained medic shoes are managing to get employment here. If you really want to ensure better outcomes for patients then petition your local TD about the conditions in our hospitals.

What do you do yourself for a living, is your dislike of medical professionals and solicitors motivated by jealousy.

And back to mass screening, do you really want to put professionals off working in these schemes. Do you think villifying them for missing cancer signs is going to add anything to the safety outcomes for men and women undergoing screening. These professionals may be fallible but their work has led to falls in women dying of cervical cancer, how many more women would have died without the screening.

I may be very lucky but I have no complaints whatsoever about any consultant I have attended. I have been charged a lot of money maybe three times as much as the person who has come three times to fix my washing machine has charged me, the washing machine is still leaking though and he hasnt disclosed fully and frankly whats wrong. I know as much about washing machines as I do about complex medical issues so I have to trust washing machine man for now.

Who will I sue if washing machine dies a death on me, I think I should get a full refund for the money I have spent trying to get leak sorted. !!!!!!!
Why would i be jealous of people who have to work for the HSE, pity would be more appropriate surely?

Thankfully i'm not in a position where i need to access public services in Eire other than filing tax returns.
My condolences to you or anyone who does.

No idea why you are banging on about washine machine, you're an odd fellow it must be said. In fairness you're a real trooper for the Irish public service. They dont have 2 shillings to spend the poor chaps, minimum wage the lot of them. If only Eires spending on health was in line with the OECD average ๐Ÿ˜. You keep fighting for the poor oppressed sods , you're a modern day James Larkin. You should set up a charity and let me know, be happy to throw in a few euro for the poor mites.

Petition a TD ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜, christ on a bike man why on earth would i wish to subject myself to that? If i want proper sevices i simply pay for it.
 
Last edited:

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
12,345
Tony O'Brien (former head of the HSE) said on Marian Finucane's program today that every other country that audits cervical screening does it anonymously, with therefore no way to inform patients of altered findings. And Ireland was the first country to try and inform women when a discordant result was found.

In that context, it was obviously a screw-up that they failed to do that, but it's further evidence that the Irish screening system is no outlier, and it seems to me the two big compensation awards are way out of line with what should have been paid.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
Tony O'Brien (former head of the HSE) said on Marian Finucane's program today that every other country that audits cervical screening does it anonymously, with therefore no way to inform patients of altered findings. And Ireland was the first country to try and inform women when a discordant result was found.

In that context, it was obviously a screw-up that they failed to do that, but it's further evidence that the Irish screening system is no outlier, and it seems to me the two big compensation awards are way out of line with what should have been paid.
What should have been paid along with
figures to back up?
 

redmonite

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,520
Tony O'Brien (former head of the HSE) said on Marian Finucane's program today that every other country that audits cervical screening does it anonymously, with therefore no way to inform patients of altered findings. And Ireland was the first country to try and inform women when a discordant result was found.

In that context, it was obviously a screw-up that they failed to do that, but it's further evidence that the Irish screening system is no outlier, and it seems to me the two big compensation awards are way out of line with what should have been paid.
You don't mean that this " vital" information was withheld? In other countries? But were the worst patriarchal, women hating society in the world! Say it ain't so!
 

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
12,345
You don't mean that this " vital" information was withheld? In other countries? But were the worst patriarchal, women hating society in the world! Say it ain't so!
Another point that O'Brien made was the role of (some) politicians and the media in stoking up this controversy.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
Tony O'Brien (former head of the HSE) said on Marian Finucane's program today that every other country that audits cervical screening does it anonymously, with therefore no way to inform patients of altered findings. And Ireland was the first country to try and inform women when a discordant result was found.

In that context, it was obviously a screw-up that they failed to do that, but it's further evidence that the Irish screening system is no outlier, and it seems to me the two big compensation awards are way out of line with what should have been paid.
Correct. And one would expect there to be consequences for those responsible for that screw up given the subsequent cost of that screw up to the taxpayer. I think we can all agree that had the screw up not occurred there would not have been any cost.

We can of course all offer opinions on the size of the costs incurred but ultimately its a pointless exercise.
 

Noble Guardian

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
907
Twitter
@NobleGuardianIE
We can of course all offer opinions on the size of the costs incurred but ultimately its a pointless exercise.
So your previousrequest to suggest amounts and provide evidence to justify those amounts was just trolling?
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
So your previousrequest to suggest amounts and provide evidence to justify those amounts was just trolling?
It's an opinion and the poster is perfectly entitled to provide it. I could say X is correct , you can say X-1 is correct and Anto can say X +1 is correct. None of us are "correct" and none of us are necessarily "wrong".

Anyway as previously stated we are all agreed that had the screw up not occurred there would not have been any cost. An important learning for the HSE although i would like to see more personal responsibility at managerial level along with medical council actions. Ultimately your taxation receipts are being squandered as a result of HSE incompetence.
 

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
12,345
So your previousrequest to suggest amounts and provide evidence to justify those amounts was just trolling?
Trolling maybe, or considering that the courts have had exclusive control over the whole domain of negligence from establishing the law, to setting compensation levels, it could be seen as an attempt to keep non-lawyers away from discussing the whole question. Thankfully, the effects of our out-of-control compensation system are proving impossible to ignore and legislators are starting to take notice. Not, they have actually done anything substantive yet. I think the present judge led effort to reduce payouts will probably fail or be tokenistic in its outcome. But, we need to keep talking about it and we need to keep comparing our payouts with other countries, because it is the size of these awards (and the number of them) which feeds into the cost of insurance premiums.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
Trolling maybe, or considering that the courts have had exclusive control over the whole domain of negligence from establishing the law, to setting compensation levels, it could be seen as an attempt to keep non-lawyers away from discussing the whole question. Thankfully, the effects of our out-of-control compensation system are proving impossible to ignore and legislators are starting to take notice. Not, they have actually done anything substantive yet. I think the present judge led effort to reduce payouts will probably fail or be tokenistic in its outcome. But, we need to keep talking about it and we need to keep comparing our payouts with other countries, because it is the size of these awards (and the number of them) which feeds into the cost of insurance premiums.
I repeatedly asked you to provide costings to back up your assertion as to why the award in a particular cases was "excessive". You failed to do so.
We have people on here querying awards and asking how much of an award the solicitor will get !! It's pretty basic that legal and medical experts fees are billed seperatedly and an additional costs. There's no knowledge as to the fact that future care costs are by far the biggest contributor to the larger awards and an excessive focus on "compensation" which is a very minor part of those larger awards. How can you label something "excessive" when you clearly havent a notion as to what is even included in that figure ?

"Keep non lawyer away from discussing" You havent a notion mate.
I'll attempt to educate you but i fear its may be too complicated for your brain. :

The State Claims agency acts on behalf of the HSE and hires medical experts along with actuaries to costs those awards. The victims solicitor does the same. They then argue the difference and come to some sort of agreement that is approved by the court. There are already multiple "non lawyers" involved in the current process.

One can eliminate entirely the compensation part but the reality remains that care will still need to be paid for and the cost of care in Ireland is extremely high. What's happening is the HSE is failing abysmally to provide proper services despite the taxpayer contributing revenue in line with the OECD average. If you seriously want to address claims rather than mouth off the following needs to be looked at :

1) Inadequate vetting of medical staff and hiring of non consultants for consultant positions. (as highlighted in the High Court)
2) Senior staff working in the private sector and dumping public patients on those in number 1.
3) Gross under reporting of sub performing medical staff to the medical council in comparison with international norms
4) A deny and delay approach to failings leading to repeat failings and additional costs

When you do all that the amount of claims will drop. At that point you need to look at why the costs of care in Ireland are so high. The medical profession probably wont like the answer sadly so it'll never happen !!!!

Your compensation culture "pub talk" should be confined to dodgy whiplash medics and solicitors. In regard to the higher awards either educate yourself or stop making a fool of yourself.
 
Last edited:

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
12,345
This thread is about the cervical issue and that is the case you just asked me about. So, care costs are largely irrelevant. As I have acknowledged the state is culpable to some small degree in this case, but I think it is a surprise to a lot of people (myself included) that every other country that does random audits of screenings does not contact any women whose results have changed. That changes the complexion of the degree of culpability and Tony O'Brien was right to highlight blame for the media and politicians for failing to point this out.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
This thread is about the cervical issue and that is the case you just asked me about. So, care costs are largely irrelevant. As I have acknowledged the state is culpable to some small degree in this case, but I think it is a surprise to a lot of people (myself included) that every other country that does random audits of screenings does not contact any women whose results have changed. That changes the complexion of the degree of culpability and Tony O'Brien was right to highlight blame for the media and politicians for failing to point this out.
you labelled an award from a birth injury as "excessive" despite having no knowledge of what the award amount included. When asked to provide costings to back up your description of the award as "excessive" you were unable to do so.

You now feel other awards are "excessive", which they may well be. unfortunately you personally have no credibility in regard to querying the size of awards.

Additionally I'd question the competence of anyone who cites Tony O'Brien as any sort of credible or indeed Independent source. I could go into further details here but i fear it would be wasted on you.
 
Last edited:

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
12,345
you labelled an award from a birth injury as "excessive" despite having no knowledge of what the award amount included. When asked to provide costings to back up your description of the award as "excessive" you were unable to do so.
Blah blah .. you can't even remember what case we were talking about (it wasn't a birth injury) and you simply won't engage with my answer to your question. Nothing I can do about that.
You now feel other awards are "excessive", which they may well be. unfortunately you personally have no credibility in regard to querying the size of awards.

Additionally I'd question the competence of anyone who cites Tony O'Brien as any sort of credible or indeed Independent source. I could go into further details here but i fear it would be wasted on you.
I've criticised O'Brien in the past, but he's been proven right on this issue.
 

ruman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
3,935
Blah blah .. you can't even remember what case we were talking about (it wasn't a birth injury) and you simply won't engage with my answer to your question. Nothing I can do about that.

I've criticised O'Brien in the past, but he's been proven right on this issue.
O'Brien is the clown who squandered tax payer funds on a promotional video boasting about the virtues of voluntary open disclosure after effectively being sacked. Rather than do what he was paid to do and reform the utterly dysfunctional HSE he tried to tap up the taxpayer for another 9 billion.

Had the failings been disclosed we wouldn't be facing these huge costs. O'Brien as prime supporter of a voluntary disclosure policy is responsible for non disclosure. O'Brien is simply doing what he did throughout his tenure , namely CYA.
 
Last edited:


Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top