Did WW2 Ultimately Change The World For The Better?

General Urko

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I'm just throwing this one out there and I don't have a definitive answer. However it would take something remarkable to have such a disaster, perhaps the greatest in human history, ultimately have positive effects.
It led to a relative peace based on the MAD theory, it led to the establishment of the EEC, which was initially a force for good and The United Nations.
There was an economic boom post WW2 also.
WW1 ended a few empires and WW2 saw the start of the end of The British one, but the reinforcement of The Soviet one.
If you perceive WW2 in Europe as the battle for civilization, than that battle was won at least in Western, Northern and Southern Europe. But What if you perceive as may be correct WW2 in The Pacific as being an imperialist war of empires?
It very much also led to regular folk being much less tolerant of taking shyte hence you have the NHS and easier access to higher level education.
 


storybud1

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Stalin, Hitler, just 2 more fascist socialists we got rid of so yeah, of course it is better,

currently ,we have liberal fascists like Merkel but their time may come to an end soon
 

Hans Von Horn

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No

(1)The Brits lost their Empire
(2) Every piss ant nation aspired to self government even those who were incapable
(3) The Doctrine of the equality of all created expectations of sharing the World's wealth equally among all.
 

PeaceGoalie

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It led to a relative peace based on the MAD theory
: USA bombed Nagasaki to show Soviets, who had just liberated Manchuruia, what the could expect. The only thing to stop the Soviet Union geting Westenr Europe was nukes.


establishment of the EEC
: was set up as France and Germany saw they had to bury the hatchet if they were to compete with USA/USSR. Marshall Plan was to expand USA's markets and to deter the Reds.
The United Nations
: was controlled by the USA as were the Breton Woods outfits. The USA still has an inordinate sway in international affairs.
t WW2 also.
WW1 ended a few empires and WW2 saw the start of the end of The British one
: WW2 was a continuation of WW1. Brits ended up bankrupted. The Yanks rode them hard.
WW2 in The Pacific as being an imperialist war of empires?
The USA grabbed the Pacific Rim and would not let the countries who fought Japan - ANZACs, Brits, Reds, Chinese occupy it. Yaks stole huge swathes of the Pacific and got back to raping the Philippines and her people.
It very much also led to regular folk being much less tolerant of taking shyte hence you have the NHS and easier access to higher level education.
Post WW2 Britain and the USA were in large parts reactions to the end of WW1 when anarchy, Bolshevism and fascism gained ground. So many armed men: best to placate them with the type of government spending that typified the war effort and was encapsulated, mar dhea, in the ideas of Keynes, which held sway until Hayek gained the high ground with Thatcher.
 

General Urko

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Stalin, Hitler, just 2 more fascist socialists we got rid of so yeah, of course it is better,

currently ,we have liberal fascists like Merkel but their time may come to an end soon
Both Stallin and Mao who were even bigger mass muderers than Hitler prospered after WW2!
 

Dearghoul

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It stopped Nazism and Fascism in Europe. At the risk of stating the obvious that was what the war in the West was about.

The NHS and the EEC could not have come about if the other side had won so yes there were other incidental gains.

Incidendental, mind you, as anything that followed the defeat of Axis was incidental.
 

between the bridges

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Yeah it was great, we should do it again soon just to see how wonderful it will be after...
 

ruserious

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Well if it never happened, none of us would exist.

See: Butterfly Effect.
 

razorblade

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You could argue that it ended Nazism, but it led to the rise of an even more murderous idealogy in communism so not necessarily better.
 

General Urko

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You could argue that it ended Nazism, but it led to the rise of an even more murderous idealogy in communism so not necessarily better.
Stalinism not Communism!
 

Drogheda445

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There were a number of long-term outcomes that followed WW2 which were undoubtably positive (some of which we tend to take for granted today). The obvious ones include the near-complete discrediting of fascism as an ideology across Europe, the definite end to certain regional rivalries (such as between France and Germany), the true beginnings of decolonisation and anti-imperialism across the world, partly due to weakened empires (some immediate, such as in Korea/Libya/Syria, some very shortly after such as India, some in a more long term sense), a widespread end to anti-semitism (although which sadly remained somewhat prevalent particularly in Eastern Europe), and the beginnings of European cooperation.

There's of course some technological benefits such as the advances brought about in computing (advances that likely would have taken decades longer without the war), medicine (penicillin for example), and engineering (jet engines and rocketry).

But most obviously, WW2 brought about the end of a number of truly appalling regimes whose goals had they been allowed to pursue them unhindered would have been devastating.

I'm assuming by no WW2, you mean to say that the two main Axis powers (Germany/Japan) were allowed to continue their wars of conquest without the intervention of the Western powers.

Consider the alternative; Nazi Germany pursues its conquests in the East, going to war with Poland, the Baltic States, and eventually the Soviet Union. Let's assume as well that the Germans defeat the Soviet Union (which is slightly more likely given that lend-lease programmes facilitated by the Allies don't exist due to their non-intervention). Hitler's regime would have been in control of an area stretching from the Low Countries to the Ural Mountains.

Nazi racial policy held Slavs and Jews to be subhuman and beneath them. All Jews in Europe were marked for extermination, and so the numbers killed in the Holocaust would have been far higher and more than likely Jews would have been completely eliminated in most areas of Europe. Slavs had varying degrees of "extermination rates", some were considered to be more acceptably Aryan (such as the Czechs) but most would have been either murdered, starved to death, or enslaved in a new colonial system (with Germans as the new settlers) that would have worked most of them to death anyway. Whole cultures in Europe would have simply been eradicated within a few years.

Add to that the sheer physical destruction that the Nazis would have carried out; the Nazi economic policy essentially consisted of looting occupied lands of their value and thus completely impoverishing them. Ancient capitals considered emblematic of the conquered nations would have been completely destroyed; Warsaw was planned to be reduced to a small town, whilst Moscow was supposedly intended for destruction and to be filled with a lake. The Nazis had no regard for anything of cultural, historical or aesthetic value; remember they had intended for the retreating German army to destroy Paris but thankfully it was never carried out. In short Nazi dominated Europe would have been a murderous, horrific sight.

As for the Japanese, whilst they had no systematic plan to commit genocide they certainly had no qualms about committing widespread atrocities regardless in order to enforce their control, as exemplified by their actions in China, particularly the Rape of Nanking. There's no doubt that this would have continued unimpeded without the intervention of other powers.

It's worth bearing in mind these plans when thinking about the world that would have resulted. Of course the relative rise of communism was hardly beneficial but there when compared with a Nazi victory there is no comparison. Although tyrannical and often pitiless, the Soviets never ended up eliminating the nations of Eastern Europe and/or enslaving their survivors. The human cost of communist policies was (mostly) a result of profound incompetence rather than an actual intention to murder and eliminate hundreds of millions. Nazism by comparison is truly tyrannical, and unlike Communism doesn't pretend to be utopian in its image; it views life as cruel and essentially only consisting of race struggle - mass genocide is not only permitted but encouraged.

So long story short, yes, WW2 was ultimately beneficial to the world as a whole and while it did result in an enormous human cost, the figure itself (and the percentage that resulted from Nazi policy) is indicative of the truly evil world that would have been the consequence of no such war taking place.
 

General Urko

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razorblade;10859616} They all endorsed marxism ideology wheather you consider it stalanism is irrelevant said:
You make it sound like absolutely nobody ever died as a consequence of capitalism, when quite a few have died as a consequence of austerity here and many more had their lives destroyed! Millions have died as a consequence of unbridled capitalism and vast numbers have had life expectancies massively reduced woth the inequalities in wealth it leads to and thus have been indirectly killed by it!
 

General Urko

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But to claim positivity coming from WW2, in a way, makes the event sound like a necessary purging of sorts?
It's hard not to see it very necessary to fight against the Axis in WW2 certainly within Europe as it was literally the war for civilization!
 

The Field Marshal

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Stalin, Hitler, just 2 more fascist socialists we got rid of so yeah, of course it is better,

currently ,we have liberal fascists like Merkel but their time may come to an end soon
You have the growth of the fascist post war state apparatus that now intrudes into every single aspect of life and taxes every single human activity.

This grotesque state of affairs applies in Ireland and the entire so called "eu" a shibboleth of democracy.
 


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