Directors and staff won prizes in 30% of credit union draws

Vega1447

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A Central Bank review of credit unions has found that, in roughly 30 per cent of those that operated prize draws, staff and directors were the winners of those prizes.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/directors-and-staff-won-prizes-in-30-of-credit-union-draws-1.3419808

This stinks. As does the the Central Bank's failure to draw the obvious conclusion - that Credit Union staff and directors in many cases "fixed" the results of car prize raffles to their own benefit.

Elementary probability theory shows that the outcomes could not have occurred by chance.

No response from the Credit Unions yet. I expect that they hope this will go away. Which it probably will.
 


tigerben

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I’m not even surprised or shocked anymore , it seems par for the course here in the best little country for big businesses and white collar crime.
 

PBP voter

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As Fr Ted said it's not entirely unusual for the organizers to win the raffle.
 

Trainwreck

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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/directors-and-staff-won-prizes-in-30-of-credit-union-draws-1.3419808

This stinks. As does the the Central Bank's failure to draw the obvious conclusion - that Credit Union staff and directors in many cases "fixed" the results of car prize raffles to their own benefit.

Elementary probability theory shows that the outcomes could not have occurred by chance.

No response from the Credit Unions yet. I expect that they hope this will go away. Which it probably will.
What utter crap reporting. No reader can draw an informed opinion from that information.

"In 30% those that operated prize draws, staff and directors were the winners of those prizes", might be entirely possible, or even likely. They don't provide enough data, nor is the language precise enough.

Number of prizes, or number of draws?
Number of credit unions operating draws, or number of draws, or number of prizes?


Having said that, I can't see how staff were allowed to participate in the first place, but once again the media only muddy, confuse and misinform rather than elucidate.
 

Analyzer

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In Ireland, insiders always win.

Whether it is Montrose Millionaires gaining out of the PRAVDA tax, or charity bosses being charitable to themselves in the allocation of salaries, to TDs giving themselves payrises, to ministers stuffing state quangos with cronies, canvassers and assorted chums.

The only way to deal with this is to not feed the rackets involved.

In which case, they lobby the government and go on PR offensives in the media, to force the tax payers to fund their largesse.

The institutional state is increasingly run the same way.

Where is fat-neck Angela to explain to the plebs that everything is above board ?
 

Prester Jim

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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/directors-and-staff-won-prizes-in-30-of-credit-union-draws-1.3419808

This stinks. As does the the Central Bank's failure to draw the obvious conclusion - that Credit Union staff and directors in many cases "fixed" the results of car prize raffles to their own benefit.

Elementary probability theory shows that the outcomes could not have occurred by chance.

No response from the Credit Unions yet. I expect that they hope this will go away. Which it probably will.
Well does this not prove what those of us who are skeptical about those in charge here have always suspected; that the rules are set up to benefit the golden circles, even the local nobs will do this because they take their lead from FF, FG and Lab in their corruption and self-serving behaviour.
Why wouldn't they divy up the spoils when the elite do?
 

Vega1447

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What utter crap reporting. No reader can draw an informed opinion from that information.

"In 30% those that operated prize draws, staff and directors were the winners of those prizes", might be entirely possible, or even likely. They don't provide enough data, nor is the language precise enough.

Number of prizes, or number of draws?
Number of credit unions operating draws, or number of draws, or number of prizes?


Having said that, I can't see how staff were allowed to participate in the first place, but once again the media only muddy, confuse and misinform rather than elucidate.
From the report
Some 46 per cent of credit unions operated prize draws in the 2½-year period, with 446,220 members participating in those draws.
Given a CU is unlikely to have more than 10-20 staff and there are (?) a few hundred CU's you don't need a PhD in the mathematics of probability to see that the 30% figure could not have happened by chance.

But the CB don't want to know.
 

Prester Jim

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What utter crap reporting. No reader can draw an informed opinion from that information.

"In 30% those that operated prize draws, staff and directors were the winners of those prizes", might be entirely possible, or even likely. They don't provide enough data, nor is the language precise enough.

Number of prizes, or number of draws?
Number of credit unions operating draws, or number of draws, or number of prizes?


Having said that, I can't see how staff were allowed to participate in the first place, but once again the media only muddy, confuse and misinform rather than elucidate.
In any obvious way you look at the info it is impossible to see how this can be anywhere near kosher in a credit union with several thousand members and maybe a couple of dozen staff members and directors.
Maybe you're just bad at maths, part time credit union bookkeeper perhaps?
 

leftsoc

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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/directors-and-staff-won-prizes-in-30-of-credit-union-draws-1.3419808

This stinks. As does the the Central Bank's failure to draw the obvious conclusion - that Credit Union staff and directors in many cases "fixed" the results of car prize raffles to their own benefit.

Elementary probability theory shows that the outcomes could not have occurred by chance.

No response from the Credit Unions yet. I expect that they hope this will go away. Which it probably will.
Interesting that the Central Bank is happy to infer fraud in the proletarian's banks , the credit unions, from basic probability theory. Probability theory back in 2008 would indicate that maybe our aristocratic bankers may have deliberately given out loans to their friends that they knew could not be repaid and did not care, happy that the taxpayer would clean up the mess. But the CB never hint at that simple truth. Experts in banking crashes all agree that they always involve massive outright fraud, as opposed to simple incompetence. Ireland it seems, according to the CB and our judicial system is the one exception. Hmmmh!
 

cricket

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Had a close look at credit unions countrywide a few years ago. They were very inconsistent across a whole range of areas. Some were very well run, others far from it.
A veteran of the movement told me at that time that his antenna was immediately raised where he saw people holding office for a long time or where several members of one or two families ruled the roost.
That was some time back, before Rush,etc. Maybe things have changed since.
 

Analyzer

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The Irish Financial Regulator had Gay Byrne's biographer monitoring the Credit Unions. Not sure if this is still the case. Pure insider play.

...what could possibly go wrong ?????

It seems that there was yet more SOFT TOUCH regulation implemented.
 

hammer

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It would be interesting also to quantify the amount of loans given to staff & directors ( and connected persons ) by very same credit unions.

How many are in arrears ?

How many received write offs ?
 

Franzoni

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It would be interesting also to quantify the amount of loans given to staff & directors ( and connected persons ) by very same credit unions.

How many are in arrears ?

How many received write offs ?

Indeed...

My own CU were splashed across the papers a few years back after 400k was found to be missing yet there hasn't been a squeak about the outcome of the investigation....

Fair play on the car draw thing BTW....you called it back in January on the other thread.....
 

fergal1790

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Most creddit unions have a fee for entering the draw of about €3/month or €30-€35 a year and many of the members opt out of the draws. Staff and directors are far more likely to remain in the draws and will therefore have a greater chance of winning the monthly prize.

The staff and directors are members of the credit union the same as any other person in the locality so should not be barred from entering the draws.
 

Vega1447

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Most creddit unions have a fee for entering the draw of about €3/month or €30-€35 a year and many of the members opt out of the draws. Staff and directors are far more likely to remain in the draws and will therefore have a greater chance of winning the monthly prize.

The staff and directors are members of the credit union the same as any other person in the locality so should not be barred from entering the draws.
Rhubarb.
From the report
Some 46 per cent of credit unions operated prize draws in the 2½-year period, with 446,220 members participating in those draws.
 

SeanieFitz

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I’m not even surprised or shocked anymore , it seems par for the course here in the best little country for big businesses and white collar crime.
I agree. Politicians, bankers, Gardaí, religious institutions, care homes, charitable organisations, developers, regulators, etc etc etc have all failed those they were supposed to represent/protect/care for. Why would anyone be surprised about a few cars
 

Civic_critic2

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They didn't 'fail'. What is it about the Irish and the sin of omission but refusal to admit sins of commission? Even the Brits killed and drove out 3-5 million in just 5 years and the Irish waffle on about 'failure' as if it was all just an accident.
 

CookieMonster

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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/directors-and-staff-won-prizes-in-30-of-credit-union-draws-1.3419808

This stinks. As does the the Central Bank's failure to draw the obvious conclusion - that Credit Union staff and directors in many cases "fixed" the results of car prize raffles to their own benefit.

Elementary probability theory shows that the outcomes could not have occurred by chance.

No response from the Credit Unions yet. I expect that they hope this will go away. Which it probably will.
I'm not sure if this is actually as bad as it seems. In most cases that I am aware of (my Grandfather was involved in the development of credit unions back in the day) the staff and managers are all members, and long term members, of the credit unions. So it's likely that they'd have heavy representation in any such draws.

There is, of course, the possibility of untoward behaviour (and given some of the problems highlighted within CUs that's not altogether unlikle), which is why, as is standard across most organisations, staff shouldn't be eligible to partake in draws like this.
 

Trainwreck

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In any obvious way you look at the info it is impossible to see how this can be anywhere near kosher in a credit union with several thousand members and maybe a couple of dozen staff members and directors.
Maybe you're just bad at maths, part time credit union bookkeeper perhaps?
You do exactly what I am complaining about.


Report the actual information that can allow people to confirm for themselves , rather than take someone else's word for it.

Just like you do in your post. Post all the hard facts and data and information, don't just say "there are thousands..."
 

hammer

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Forensic accountants probing bust Rush Credit Union have been unable to work out what happened to 15 cars that were supposed to be prizes in draws.

The cars cost €220,000 in total - but Grant Thornton, which was asked to probe the credit union, was unable to work out who won them.

Serious questions now hang over the prize draws, as there are no available accounts of who entered and what was paid out.

This is just one among a litany of explosive revelations of fraudulent activity, tax dodging, questionable expenses claims and the signing of blank cheques uncovered at the wound-up credit union.

The evidence emerged after the High Court agreed to appoint liquidators to the North County Dublin lender.

Some €450,000 has had to be returned to members, many of whom were entered into the car draw without their consent.


Lest we forget..........

Charlie Weston article.
 


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