Dis is Limerick City ...

TonyBird

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Prime time tonight provided a depressing glimpse into the ghettos of Limerick . For me , the most shocking thing was the 'surrender' by the head honcho of regeneration , Brendan Kenny . He reckons anyone over 5 years old is doomed .
I think the man should resign in the morning .
Comments/views anyone ?
 
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incredulous101

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I think they said regeneration had spent 50 million. Looks to me to little use. A ten year old disappeared for stealing the wrong car, one with drugs in it.

Social workers confined to working 9-5 weekdays. I've heard that social workers get a certain amount of travel per week and that when the limit is reached they either don't travel or travel on their own money - and they are not that well paid. A dreadful position to be put in. Must be very disheartening.

I wonder how often there is a proper review of the "Limerick Regeneration's" progress?
 

TonyBird

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I wonder how often there is a proper review of the "Limerick Regeneration's" progress?
Good question . How do we know this Kenny guy isnt a total spoofer , like many heads of quangos ?

Judging by tonights show , he is struggling to get to grips with his task .
 

incredulous101

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Just had a quick flick through their website. Lots of very colorful plans, but little goal setting against which performance might be measured.

surprise - not

too late/early - off to bed
 

TonyBird

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Just had a quick flick through their website. Lots of very colorful plans, but little goal setting against which performance might be measured.
Like all the best manifestos ;)
And then the next thing you know , everyone is retired and on a nice pension , yet the issues remain . Its just someone elses problem . Isnt 'politics' brilliant ?
 

b.a. baracus

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I think they said regeneration had spent 50 million. Looks to me to little use. A ten year old disappeared for stealing the wrong car, one with drugs in it.

Social workers confined to working 9-5 weekdays. I've heard that social workers get a certain amount of travel per week and that when the limit is reached they either don't travel or travel on their own money - and they are not that well paid. A dreadful position to be put in. Must be very disheartening.

I wonder how often there is a proper review of the "Limerick Regeneration's" progress?
You heard wrong. Social workers are very well paid indeed. Have a look at page 15 of the link attached.

Document download centre

The problem is that the issues in Limerick have gone well beyond the capacity of social workers. There is complete societal breakdown in parts of Limerick. It is difficult to see a solution apart from Gardai completely swamping the area for the next 10 years.
 

realistic1

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Good question . How do we know this Kenny guy isnt a total spoofer , like many heads of quangos ?

Judging by tonights show , he is struggling to get to grips with his task .
It is a handy earner for him and he also hired family members on large salaries into this regeneration lark.
 

EvotingMachine0197

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I watched this program. The main point I took from it was the complete absence of will to solve the problems.
 

Limerick Lad

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The problem is that the issues in Limerick have gone well beyond the capacity of social workers. There is complete societal breakdown in parts of Limerick. It is difficult to see a solution apart from Gardai completely swamping the area for the next 10 years.
While undoubtedly there is a complete breakdown of the social norms in some parts of Limerick exacerbated by the ghettoising of areas like Southhill and Moyross, a similar programme could have been made in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford or any large conurbation in Ireland.
 

Neilob

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Speaking as one who lives in a county on the periphery of Limerick, and with long family connections there, and a Great-Grandson and grand nephew of two Mayors, to me it seems tragic that the third city in the Republic should have been allowed to slump so low over the last 30 years. The reasons for it are many, and first and foremost bad planning has been a curse to the city. Limerick County Council has sucked the life and blood from the City by allowing the Crescent Shopping Centre grow to a dominant level. The result is that the City Centre is now completely dead. The shops on Cruises Street, which opened in 1992, have largely relocated to the Shopping Centre and have been replaced by cheaper high street chains. It amazes me that when you go out to the Crescent it is literally thronged with people, and the city is empty. How could this have happened? Well the City COuncil are not entirely innocent either; they overcharged business and rates within the city boundary were at one time the most expensive of any local authority in Ireland. Both Councils destroyed the city by building enormous social housing projects on the periphery of the centre and the middle class abandoned the precincts, moving out to the surrounding Counties. If ever you need an example of our disastrous system of local government than point to Limerick. It has been literally devasted by civic goons.


To say it cannot be fixed is ridiculous, of course it can. Dublin had an atrocious reputation in the 1970s and 1980s and like Limerick was a failing city with terrible social problems and drugs. Imagination turned it around after the European City of Culture in the mid-1980s. The middle classes were encouraged to return to the city centre; the streetscape was improved and the city fathers worked on the image of Dublin and turned it completely around. I lived in Dublin for 9 years and saw a ruined town grow back into a modern European city and I recall visiting the City Hall after it's restoration and reading an entry in the visitors book from an American Lady who had been a student in Dublin in the 1960s, and she remarked how strikingly well the City had really changed for the better. Dublin began to thrive again because its local Government was reformed. The old corrupt County Council was broken up and the city and county was re-organised into four local units that co-ordinated and co-operated to improve the city. It would probably be even better if they were all replaced with a powerful assembly, but that's another matter. However Dublin also received patronage from central Government, as it properly should as the capital city.

Dublin, however, has many things going for it that Limerick does not. Firstly it is a thriving capital city; Limerick is a regional market city. Dublin has a huge population base whereas much of the population of Limerick now lives outside the city boundary. Dublin has a thriving employment base; since the closing of Dell and the companies that depended on it, Limerick is an employment blackspot and most of the progressive youth in the city have moved to Dublin or emigrated. Limerick also has an image problem that goes beyond perception: it is more of a mindset and one which the people of Limerick and their Governors are content with. I recall being at a Art exhibition in the early 1980s and the newly appointed City Manager, Jack Burke, spoke about the idea and philosophy of a city and that it should have squares and fountains, and places for people to congregate. The people guffawed and laughed and the Manager lost his temper and said 'no, I'm serious', if you want this city to live, then it needs to change both its mindset and its urban space. He did great work in helping renovate large areas of the crumbling city fabric, but he left for Cork soon after and was a great loss. Sometimes public servants with imagination can be just the ticket for a people who really don't want to be improved.

With regard to the provision of facilities and redevelopment of South Hill and Moyross, I have to honestly say that where I grew up there was no swimming poll, no gym, no Library, no playing fields etc. We had nothing, but we did have hope. The problems with Limerick are not going to be solved by throwing facilities and new houses at people; it's winning over hearts and minds. It is also fighting the cycle of despair of teenage pregnancies, of which Limerick has the higest. Children born outside stable and loving relationships are going to go feral, that's a fact, and it is something we need to tackle in our wider society. Our children need to be thought the value of being responsible citizens. They also need to be thought about respect for their bodies and the responsibility of using contraception if they decide to become sexually active. However throwing condoms at kids isn't the solution, it's winning them over. Succeed in this and Limerick will turn around, fail and that guy is right: anyone over 5 years of age is doomed.
 
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d7bohs

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While undoubtedly there is a complete breakdown of the social norms in some parts of Limerick exacerbated by the ghettoising of areas like Southhill and Moyross, a similar programme could have been made in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford or any large conurbation in Ireland.
I really don't think so. I honestly don't know anywhere in Dublin quite as hopeless as portrayed on PT last night.
 

Dohville

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You heard wrong. Social workers are very well paid indeed. Have a look at page 15 of the link attached.

Document download centre

The problem is that the issues in Limerick have gone well beyond the capacity of social workers. There is complete societal breakdown in parts of Limerick. It is difficult to see a solution apart from Gardai completely swamping the area for the next 10 years.
Is 35-45k considered "Very Well paid indeed" these days?
What do you consider "just well paid"
What do you consider "low paid"?
 

Neilob

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I really don't think so. I honestly don't know anywhere in Dublin quite as hopeless as portrayed on PT last night.


You obviously don't regularly visit the inner city ghettos of the North inner city of Dublin very often: Buckingham Street, Sommerville and the surrounding slums. I remember canvassing for a local politician in those areas in the early 2000s and they were some of the most deprived areas I have ever been to. South Hill in Limerick is without doubt one of the worst environmental blights in the State: it could only fail because of its ugliness and dreadful planning, but it was an urban plan copied all around the State, and to say that it doesn't happen in any other town or city in Ireland is just a little naive. When I worked in Dublin I remember a south side colleague telling me that she had never been inside Clery's and spoke of O'Connell Street as if it was a foreign country. I was completely bowled over.

It's impossible to police a warren of small sub-streets like South Hill and the houses are built one on top of the other. It's demolition is to be welcomed, however the infection and contagion of ghettos is being spread to other parts of the city by merely relocating people without any consideration to others. Everyone needs a place to live, but putting anti-social kids into private estates has caused a good deal of tension in the city. What's the solution, I don't know? But to say nothing like this is happening in the rest of of country is frankly downright silly. Drugs, teenage mothers, failing estates, abusive and alcoholic parents, sexual abuse, absentee parenting etc are endemic in Irish society and to one level or another they are not restricted to class. Our society is broken and to say it is a Limerick thing is just crap to be honest, it's coming to all of our doors.
 

Limerick Lad

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I really don't think so. I honestly don't know anywhere in Dublin quite as hopeless as portrayed on PT last night.
Cars don't get stolen and burned out elsewhere? People don't feel intimidated in their own homes by yobs who vandalise their own neighbourhoods outside of Limerick? Gangland shootings and murders don't happen in Dublin?
What was shown on Prime Time was a microcosm of what happens in many urban areas in Ireland.
Shocking? Yes but unusual and unique in Ireland? No!
 

Dohville

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Cars don't get stolen and burned out elsewhere? People don't feel intimidated in their own homes by yobs who vandalise their own neighbourhoods outside of Limerick? Gangland shootings and murders don't happen in Dublin?
What was shown on Prime Time was a microcosm of what happens in many urban areas in Ireland.
Shocking? Yes but unusual and unique in Ireland? No!
I disagree.
The scale of the limerick problem is much larger, and more intense than anywhere else in Ireland. Outside of Southill, Ballinacurra Weston, The Island, or Moyross, there are no such problems in Limerick. These estates, due to their design, are no-go areas. To have them as addresses make the residents unemployable.
The population of limerick city is more akin to that of a Large town than a city. It should not have this level of crime and urban decay.
 

PlinkaPlonka

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Nothing completely shocking about this documentary. It was obvious that parts of it were made during the summer/autumn, why only show it now? The eve of the budget? Methinks RTE is playing games....
 

ellie08

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Irish solution to an Irish problem - build thugs new houses and they'll turn good.
 

Neilob

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I disagree.
The scale of the limerick problem is much larger, and more intense than anywhere else in Ireland. Outside of Southill, Ballinacurra Weston, The Island, or Moyross, there are no such problems in Limerick. These estates, due to their design, are no-go areas. To have them as addresses make the residents unemployable.
The population of limerick city is more akin to that of a Large town than a city. It should not have this level of crime and urban decay.

Limerick's problems are indeed difficult, but they are not unique. Cork had bad social problems and gang crime in the 1990s but the Flynn clann and their rivals burned themselves out, either by killing each other or landing in prison. Effective policing year's ago could have stopped the problems in Limerick from spiralling out of control but instead local authorities and politicians decided to sit down with the thugs and work out deals. We all remember Willie O'Dea acting as a negotiator between the rival families - what does that say? Responsible politician or part of the problem - you judge!

The problems in Limerick are intense because petty criminals became involved in drug distribution and hit the big time. They squeezed out gangs in other provincial cities and the drug trade in Munster shifted from Cork to Limerick in the early 2000s. The same thing is happening in West Dublin. Of course nobody really cares because this is ghetto crime, and some of the leading members of our society have no compunction about creating a market for these guys by taking a line of coke. The next thing the Dundons will be respectable and invited to the President's Garden Parties with every other nutjob ex paramilitary from Belfast - they might be able to make a few contacts.
 

ellie08

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A garda station up in Moyross would be a start to protect the majority of innocent people living up there. Better than some shiny new houses. This regeneration scheme was more about developers developing areas beyond the derelict areas and if you ask me that was the real reason for this, tidy up the nasty areas, move em out of St. mary's and put in expensive apartments. Oh but what do you know, market collapsed, regeneration suddenly not so important. More education, garda stations, after school activites, factories that's what needed.
 


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