Disciplined vigilantes to assist Gardai in tackling antisocial behaviour?

patslatt

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In another post on Current Affairs,there are many comments on the shocking levels of antisocial behaviour in Limerick,but judging by crime statistics,Dublin and Cork must be experiencing far higher levels of antisocial behaviour. The Gardai and the legal system has difficulty in deterring this behaviour when the crimes are petty:the jails are full and more expensive to maintain than boarding at an elite university. Electronic tagging could supplement imprisonment but it is doubtful if antisocial elements would be sufficiently deterred by that. And when antisocial behaviour falls short of the definition of a crime, even though its persistence can be a nightmare,there is little that policing can do without vastly increasing the police presence on the streets-clearly unaffordable given that the lifetime cost of pay and pensions for the average garda is about a million euro in today's money.

One solution that is popular in the US is the Guardian Angels' vigilante system. These are not Provo-style knee cappers. Instead,they patrol the streets,are taught self defence and the legalities of citizens' arrests. I don't know how successful they are but they have received considerable publicity. They have some foreign chapters,as in Australia Vigilantes to target Canberra crime hot spots - Local News - News - General - The Canberra Times

The first duty of the state is to enforce the law. When the state fails in that duty in some high crime areas,the people have the right to defend themselves.
 


Heyoka

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From what I've heard from older people , people used to band together to keep the troublemakers in check , up until the 60's or 70's anyway. But things have changed to an extent where I'd be worried that if the more hostile knackers were met with an organised vigilante group that they would become more organised themselves. They could also target the volunteers with violent attacks if somebody was say interfering with their drug peddling. It could probably be effective with the less hostile troublemakers though. It should be matched with a greater Garda presence , better street lighting and greater powers of prosecution for assaults etc.

The brazenness of the average scumbag lately though is frustrating. But they just keep breeding and breeding and breeding an.....................
 
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redhead101

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If somebody is that keen to contribute to safety and security, let them join the Garda Reserve.
 

patslatt

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Delay in rolling out Garda reserve

If somebody is that keen to contribute to safety and security, let them join the Garda Reserve.
The Gardai were reluctant about the reserve and seem to be delaying its rollout. How many reservists are there? Are figures available?
 

patslatt

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Tapering off the childrens' allowance

From what I've heard from older people , people used to band together to keep the troublemakers in check , up until the 60's or 70's anyway. But things have changed to an extent where I'd be worried that if the more hostile knackers were met with an organised vigilante group that they would become more organised themselves. They could also target the volunteers with violent attacks if somebody was say interfering with their drug peddling. It could probably be effective with the less hostile troublemakers though. It should be matched with a greater Garda presence , better street lighting and greater powers of prosecution for assaults etc.

The brazenness of the average scumbag lately though is frustrating. But they just keep breeding and breeding and breeding an.....................
On the latter point,there is as case for tapering off the childrens' allowance beyond two children to discourage a minority of people from having children for the allowance.

The antisocial elements are a small minority in even the socially deprived areas,often comprising a core of just a handful of families and some others influenced by them. If,say,there were 7 to 10 Guardian Angels for every antisocial person,that would be a deterrent. So in a comunnity of 5,000,there could be 140 Guardian Angels and 20 antisocial persons.
 
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johntrenchard

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cant speak for the rest of the country, but down in Cork what used to happen is that scumbags would be given a warning by either the Provos or the Officials. This is going back a bit (1970s/1980s) , and I always thought that there was a certain degree of toleration of this from the local gardai, because that prevented scumbags from Dublin trying to introduce the heroin trade into Cork , which was raging in Dublin at the time. I do remember a number of assasinations/kneecappings that went on, with very little follow up from the gardai - because the person targetted was genuinely a major league scumbag.

Correct me if i'm wrong here, but thats my recollection. Obviously with the Good Friday agreement, that "vigilante" style pressure valve has gone away for good.
 

Ingersoll

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Serious nasties are not going to be deterred by have a go heroes patrolling the streets, and as highlighted above it would be dangerous for them if they meet the wrong kind of scumbag. Even the more casual pond-scum can carry a knife. There is also the question of the kind of character that would join these groups - I wouldn't want to encourage our little-Hitlers to be patrolling any street with a 'mission'.
 

realistic1

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cant speak for the rest of the country, but down in Cork what used to happen is that scumbags would be given a warning by either the Provos or the Officials. This is going back a bit (1970s/1980s) , and I always thought that there was a certain degree of toleration of this from the local gardai, because that prevented scumbags from Dublin trying to introduce the heroin trade into Cork , which was raging in Dublin at the time. I do remember a number of assasinations/kneecappings that went on, with very little follow up from the gardai - because the person targetted was genuinely a major league scumbag.

Correct me if i'm wrong here, but thats my recollection. Obviously with the Good Friday agreement, that "vigilante" style pressure valve has gone away for good.
Yeah your spot on and since the provos decommisioned their guns the votes for Sinn fein reps has decreased, because before you could go to your local SF rep and he would get the trouble sorted, now days your local SF rep will tell you to go to the Gardai.
 

Mister men

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The scum needs to be discouraged from breeding more scum. Even in our area a young lad around 11 threw a rock at one of my neighbours windows last month. I caught him red handed in the act and proceeded down to the parents house. I told the dad of the kid what i'd witnessed expecting him to take action againest his son. I was shocked by his reaction tbh. He told me that it was "rats" like myself that gave the area a bad name. :confused: I asked him to explain and he slammed the door in my face. I told my neighbour when he got home and he reported to the Gardai the incident with myself as witness.

The problem is the parents of these kids don't actually give two hoots about other people and their kids as long as they have enough cash for the bookies and a few cans. The sooner the better the government of this country starts giving out food vouchers instead of cash to people of this ilk the better. Imo vigilantes won't make a difference it's bigger prisions and harder time for the scum that's needed.
 

johntrenchard

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Yeah your spot on and since the provos decommisioned their guns the votes for Sinn fein reps has decreased, because before you could go to your local SF rep and he would get the trouble sorted, now days your local SF rep will tell you to go to the Gardai.
hey thanks for confirming that. was only a little nipper at the time, so my recollections are entirely from memory. a lot of stuff went unreported in the media and lots of folks simply didnt talk about it.
 

typical

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Vigilant citizens, snitch lines, cameras, state censorship through libel laws, monitoring of communications, kangaroo courts, an elite nepotist domination of politics, a ruling party that refuses to let go of power and an unaccountable judicial system, is there anything we're missing? Death squads and summary executions maybe?
 

johntrenchard

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Vigilant citizens, snitch lines, cameras, state censorship through libel laws, monitoring of communications, kangaroo courts, an elite nepotist domination of politics, a ruling party that refuses to let go of power and an unaccountable judicial system, is there anything we're missing? Death squads and summary executions maybe?
Errr.. .we already had that in the 1970s/1980s. After a warning of course.
 

Nipper

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Vigilant citizens, snitch lines, cameras, state censorship through libel laws, monitoring of communications, kangaroo courts, an elite nepotist domination of politics, a ruling party that refuses to let go of power and an unaccountable judicial system, is there anything we're missing? Death squads and summary executions maybe?

A charismatic dictator :)
 

mike kelly

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In another post on Current Affairs,there are many comments on the shocking levels of antisocial behaviour in Limerick,but judging by crime statistics,Dublin and Cork must be experiencing far higher levels of antisocial behaviour. The Gardai and the legal system has difficulty in deterring this behaviour when the crimes are petty:the jails are full and more expensive to maintain than boarding at an elite university. Electronic tagging could supplement imprisonment but it is doubtful if antisocial elements would be sufficiently deterred by that. And when antisocial behaviour falls short of the definition of a crime, even though its persistence can be a nightmare,there is little that policing can do without vastly increasing the police presence on the streets-clearly unaffordable given that the lifetime cost of pay and pensions for the average garda is about a million euro in today's money.

One solution that is popular in the US is the Guardian Angels' vigilante system. These are not Provo-style knee cappers. Instead,they patrol the streets,are taught self defence and the legalities of citizens' arrests. I don't know how successful they are but they have received considerable publicity. They have some foreign chapters,as in Australia Vigilantes to target Canberra crime hot spots - Local News - News - General - The Canberra Times

The first duty of the state is to enforce the law. When the state fails in that duty in some high crime areas,the people have the right to defend themselves.
crime stats in Limerick are meaningles. The gardai just won't come out to over half the city
 

realistic1

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hey thanks for confirming that. was only a little nipper at the time, so my recollections are entirely from memory. a lot of stuff went unreported in the media and lots of folks simply didnt talk about it.
I am not condoning these vigilanty activity but when the State fails to protect its citizens they are leaving openings for illegal groups to gain support.
 


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