Disregard 1916 and go back to Tone?

former wesleyan

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Interesting article in todays Trib where a new book traces serious thinking about a republic back to Cromwell. It also banishes the myth of the 3000 catholics massacred in Drogheda by the aforesaid. Aparently it was a protestant town and there weren't 3000 papists around !! Cromwell called the royalist protestants catholics to make the massacre more palatable to the English !! Well well .
 


SevenStars

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I would be suspcious of that....Cromwell received severe criticism from more enlightened/progressive Republican forces in England for his carry on in Ireland...
 

Green eyed monster

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Interesting article in todays Trib where a new book traces serious thinking about a republic back to Cromwell. It also banishes the myth of the 3000 catholics massacred in Drogheda by the aforesaid. Aparently it was a protestant town and there weren't 3000 papists around !! Cromwell called the royalist protestants catholics to make the massacre more palatable to the English !! Well well .
The issue of their religion is not settled as i understand but is bandied across between historians over the centuries, and then there is still the matter of the hundreds of thousands of dead Catholics to account for... But that is for a different thread.
 

SlabMurphy

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Interesting article in todays Trib where a new book traces serious thinking about a republic back to Cromwell. It also banishes the myth of the 3000 catholics massacred in Drogheda by the aforesaid. Aparently it was a protestant town and there weren't 3000 papists around !! Cromwell called the royalist protestants catholics to make the massacre more palatable to the English !! Well well .
What is it with Paisleyites ? What has this got to do with Tone ? :rolleyes: It's like me posting " Shock, horror. An article appears in the Skibbereen Eagle which says the 20,000 unionists turkeys killed at the Somme were all secret Catholics " :roll: :roll:
 
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ocoonassa

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a new book traces serious thinking about a republic back to Cromwell
Who'd have thought it eh, chop a monarchs head off and disestablish the Church and everybody wants to brand you a Republican :confused: Seriously though, the line of descent for Irish Republicanism goes right back to that man. Clearly he was a headcase but both he and the Levellers were forward thinking and better than anything else on offer really for their time. Sucked to be a Catholic Royalist though, he shipped heaps of them out to the West Indies to do hard labour. Good riddance to feudal abusers imo.

One thing. When he said "to hell or Connacht" did every single Roman Catholic person in Ulster, Munster, and Leinster have to get up and leave? Or was it just the Royalist landowners who'd gone against him? How many people were "ethnically" cleansed do we know?
 

SlabMurphy

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Who'd have thought it eh, chop a monarchs head off and disestablish the Church and everybody wants to brand you a Republican :confused: Seriously though, the line of descent for Irish Republicanism goes right back to that man. Clearly he was a headcase but both he and the Levellers were forward thinking and better than anything else on offer really for their time. Sucked to be a Catholic Royalist though, he shipped heaps of them out to the West Indies to do hard labour. Good riddance to feudal abusers imo.

One thing. When he said "to hell or Connacht" did every single Roman Catholic person in Ulster, Munster, and Leinster have to get up and leave? Or was it just the Royalist landowners who'd gone against him? How many people were "ethnically" cleansed do we know?
The ideology of Republicanism has been around long before Cromwell, ever hear of the Roman Republic Bozo :) Besides the type of Republic Wolfe Tone based his ideology on was revoulotionary France and America instead of the one you crowd claim to be 'loyal' to - an hereditary monarch and so called Defender of the Faith who asks that a supernatural being save her so she can reign over her subjects :lol:.
 

former wesleyan

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Who'd have thought it eh, chop a monarchs head off and disestablish the Church and everybody wants to brand you a Republican :confused: Seriously though, the line of descent for Irish Republicanism goes right back to that man. Clearly he was a headcase but both he and the Levellers were forward thinking and better than anything else on offer really for their time. Sucked to be a Catholic Royalist though, he shipped heaps of them out to the West Indies to do hard labour. Good riddance to feudal abusers imo.

One thing. When he said "to hell or Connacht" did every single Roman Catholic person in Ulster, Munster, and Leinster have to get up and leave? Or was it just the Royalist landowners who'd gone against him? How many people were "ethnically" cleansed do we know?
He meant the landowners. Presumably they would, in his view, take their serfs with them. People below a certain rank were invisible , back in the day ! Rather like people confuse Tones remark about "men of no property " to mean the peasantry whereas it merely refered to the property qualification for voting.
 

former wesleyan

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The ideology of Republicanism has been around long before Cromwell, ever hear of the Roman Republic Bozo :) Besides the type of Republic Wolfe Tone based his ideology on was revoulotionary France and America instead of the one you crowd claim to be 'loyal' to - an hereditary monarch and so called Defender of the Faith who asks that a supernatural being save her so she can reign over her subjects :lol:.
More wisdom from the font of knowledge that wells up in South Armagh.
 

picador

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The proposition that we should ignore 'divisive' 1916 and adapt 1798 is just another red herring. For a start the bi-centennial of the 98 rising was widely marked a dozen years ago (I wonder how Anglo-Celt missed it). The usual suspects just claim it was a sectarian uprising and go on about Scullabogue.

The campaign aimed at the Easter Rising, the War of Independence, etc. is all about delegitimising / stigmatising the struggle for freedom. 1798 is just another front.
 

former wesleyan

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former wesleyan

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The proposition that we should ignore 'divisive' 1916 and adapt 1798 is just another red herring. For a start the bi-centennial of the 98 rising was widely marked a dozen years ago (I wonder how Anglo-Celt missed it). The usual suspects just claim it was a sectarian uprising and go on about Scullabogue.

The campaign aimed at the Easter Rising, the War of Independence, etc. is all about delegitimising / stigmatising the struggle for freedom. 1798 is just another front.
"Three cheers for the United Irishmen ; and to Hell with Protestants "

Wexford toast , circa 1798.
 

ocoonassa

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The ideology of Republicanism has been around long before Cromwell, ever hear of the Roman Republic Bozo :) Besides the type of Republic Wolfe Tone based his ideology on was revoulotionary France and America instead of the one you crowd claim to be 'loyal' to - an hereditary monarch and so called Defender of the Faith who asks that a supernatural being save her so she can reign over her subjects :lol:.
Oh look when I said 'the line of descent for Irish Republicanism goes right back to that man' you didn't understand me. The Roman Republic was not in Sligo. The people who Cromwell granted lands to and sided with, his co-religionists the Dissenters, are the very people whose descendants started the United Irish. Also I don't claim loyalty to any Monarchs or Popes, like a Republican.
 

johnfás

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The proposition that we should ignore 'divisive' 1916 and adapt 1798 is just another red herring. For a start the bi-centennial of the 98 rising was widely marked a dozen years ago (I wonder how Anglo-Celt missed it). The usual suspects just claim it was a sectarian uprising and go on about Scullabogue.

The campaign aimed at the Easter Rising, the War of Independence, etc. is all about delegitimising / stigmatising the struggle for freedom. 1798 is just another front.
Aside from being divisive, the political legacy of 1916 is one of our greatest problems. The legacy of our political leadership simply rotating from one group of people to the next, the only qualification that any of them have being that their father, or grandfather, or great grandfather was a sniper on the roof of the GPO.
 

Green eyed monster

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It's sort of wrong to switch this topic to Cromwell, he is such a hugely divisive and central figure that i knew it would almost certainly hijack the thread when i saw that post (and deliberately designed to do so - seemingly - as well).
 

Cruimh

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The proposition that we should ignore 'divisive' 1916 and adapt 1798 is just another red herring. For a start the bi-centennial of the 98 rising was widely marked a dozen years ago (I wonder how Anglo-Celt missed it). The usual suspects just claim it was a sectarian uprising and go on about Scullabogue.

The campaign aimed at the Easter Rising, the War of Independence, etc. is all about delegitimising / stigmatising the struggle for freedom. 1798 is just another front.
Guess which "suspect" first mentioned the hightlighted word on this thread .....
 

picador

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Guess which "suspect" first mentioned the hightlighted word on this thread .....
You had already rubbished the 1798 rebellion as 'sectarian' so what of it?
 

edifice.

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Interesting letter in an edition of this weeks IT. That section of letters is quite long so I highlighted the one I'm referring to by a Pierce Martin
Pierce Martin, another West Brit arsehole in the school of Harris, Myers etc. He's been ridiculed that many times that at this stage someone must be paying him to pen this crap.
 


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