Disregard 1916 and go back to Tone?

picador

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
20,659
Aside from being divisive, the political legacy of 1916 is one of our greatest problems. The legacy of our political leadership simply rotating from one group of people to the next, the only qualification that any of them have being that their father, or grandfather, or great grandfather was a sniper on the roof of the GPO.
The legacy of the Civil War is indeed a rotten one. Perhaps now the people of the 26 counties have the ocasion to move away from the Civil War parties?
 


picador

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
20,659
They didn't knock their ideals on the head. Instead they sought to broaden the base of the uprising by including the largest and most marginalised group in their plans.

Thus Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter and not just Protestant and Dissenter.
 

Theobald

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
140

picador

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
20,659
proceedings were only ended when the orangemen took large hammers and destroyed betsy’s new memorial. This was not out of disrespect to betsy and they were in no way disowning her.
lol
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,873
Did they tell you that down the lodge or do you have a source for it?
The source was an article written by a historian and published by the IT during the aforementioned bi-centennial celebrations of 1798. So it's archived and I don't have, and have no intention of getting, a sub. What ? Do you think that I imagined that the UI had toasts and that this was one of them ?:?
 

picador

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
20,659
The source was an article written by a historian and published by the IT during the aforementioned bi-centennial celebrations of 1798. So it's archived and I don't have, and have no intention of getting, a sub. What ? Do you think that I imagined that the UI had toasts and that this was one of them ?:?
A reputable historian - or a disreputable historian, of which there are plenty in Ireland?
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,873
So were the Penal Laws. But they didn't stop the Defenders taking part in a Protestant-led rebellion.
The Penal Laws were incidental to Ireland in their conception. They were aimed at powerful Jacobite families in England and Scotland. Some say that their application in Ireland was less harsh than in England and Scotland but given the number of Roman Catholics in Ireland the effects were greater.
 

Scipio

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2010
Messages
936
The defenders were sectarian.
The Defenders, as the name would suggest, were a reaction to the pogroms taking place in Ulster during the early to mid-1780s and which would reach their climax with the foundation of the Order in 1795.

Originally they had little political interest, save to defend Catholics from attack, and indeed were originally seen by many as loyal to the King.
To portray them simply as a "sectarian" movement, without further context, is quite misleading.
 

picador

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
20,659
Nice trolling - first you try to divert the discussion to the actual rising(s) and Scullabogue - and now the Penal Laws LOL
So you wish to have a discussion about the 1798 rising without discussion of the actual rising or of the circumstances prevailing at the time?

LOL - classic cruimh!

P.S. I'm sure you would have got round to Scullabogue sooner or later. ;)
 

Theobald

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
140
The defenders were sectarian.
They were highly educated middle-class catholics, fluent in Gaelic spoken and written.

They joined the united irishmen to achieve religious freedom, and if that meant the freedom of ALL religions then it had to be.

To say they were sectarian is like saying religion is sectarian.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,873
A reputable historian - or a disreputable historian, of which there are plenty in Ireland?
I'm almost sure that it was local historian who had accessed archives in Wexford. Sometimes the IT has a section on local history publications and this was one with books and monographs relevant to 1798.
 

picador

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
20,659
The Defenders, as the name would suggest, were a reaction to the pogroms taking place in Ulster during the early to mid-1780s and which would reach their climax with the foundation of the Order in 1795.

Originally they had little political interest, save to defend Catholics from attack, and indeed were originally seen by many as loyal to the King.
To portray them simply as a "sectarian" movement, without further context, is quite misleading.
I think he meant they were Catholics who were defending Catholic interests.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,873
Former Wesleyan - Something else that has largely been air brushed out of the popular narrative of that period - millenarianism.
:confused: What's wimmins hats got to do with it ?
 

Theobald

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
140


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top Bottom