Disregard 1916 and go back to Tone?

Anglo Celt

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What would be really interesting to know is connections between the Orange Order and counter-insurgency networks in Africa during its liberation wars.
:roll:

Back to the topic. I think it's been a very interesting thread but maybe gone a little bit off. I suppose the letter asks the question how negative the effects of a movement which begun with 1916 has been on the Irish state (all things considered, extremely so IMO)? The Russians buried communism and all the myths that came with it. Will Ireland bury 1916 and all the myths that came with that and become a true republic as opposed to a nationalist ideologically driven country with 'republic' coating? How long before FF wheel out the corpse of 1916 and wave the green flags in our faces? And will people fall for it yet again?
 


Scipio

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The Russians buried communism and all the myths that came with it.
Have you been to Russia lately? Putin has been steadily reshaping myths over the past 10 years to fit his patriotic agenda, and it's working.

All countries have victorious myths that they build their common identity around whether it's the English and Trafalgar/Battle of Britain, the French and Valmy/la Révolution, the Irish and 1916/War of Independence, or indeed the Orange Order and William of Orange/James II.

Would 1798 be a better fit? Probably. Will it happen? Probably not. States, and communal feelings, aren't rational beasts.
 

Schomberg

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Partition brought about by Irish republicanism has done damage. Ireland leaving the UK did damage to both jurisdictions. We can fluff it up with all the flowery language we want, but thems the bones of it. Irish republicanism was and still is a failed ideology on this island. it has a majority support (kinda anyway) but not enough of a majority to make a proper go of it. republicans don't do compromise, if they did, we mightn't be where we are today. Not that anyone will ever admit to it, but our rightful place was in a devolved UK. Irish politicians were well ahead of their time in that regard. but we threw them aside and went with nationalist extremists and we're still living with the consequences of that today.
 

Schomberg

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Have you been to Russia lately? Putin has been steadily reshaping myths over the past 10 years to fit his patriotic agenda, and it's working.
some "myths" are a damn sight healthier for a people/nation than others Scipio. The Irish nationalist myth is sort of like the lovable but beaten dog. He's cute and all, but he's still a pretty pathetic creature at the end of the day. The Battle of Trafalgar on the other hand.... ;)
 

SevenStars

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some "myths" are a damn sight healthier for a people/nation than others Scipio. The Irish nationalist myth is sort of like the lovable but beaten dog. He's cute and all, but he's still a pretty pathetic creature at the end of the day. The Battle of Trafalgar on the other hand.... ;)
The important thing in life is not winning or losing but doing the right thing regardless of the consequences....As Alexander Nevsky the great Russian (now there is a nation!) national hero said as he led his people into battle against the numerically and technologically superior proto-squaddies of the Tuetonic knights said "God lies not on the side of might but of pravda". Unionists are incapable of understanding such concepts.

The Irish soldier going out to confront the immense force of the UK state with little more than an AK and a prayer, the Irish soldier enduring torture for the sake of his nation's dignity in a Free State or British prison camp no matter how much the beaten dog has hidden within the rags of his humiliation a glory that the pompous and fundamentally immature bully and thug cannot even conceptualize.
 

merle haggard

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Partition brought about by Irish republicanism has done damage.
youre full of it , partion was brought about solely by Britian . It was put forward as a serious plan before 1916 even occured , an attempt was made to implement it prior even to 1921. Partition was and remains solely a device to violate Irish sovereignty and veto Irish national democracy .
You are forced as a loyalist to admit partitition is evil and damagaing to the nation but to support the very evil that brought ot about , while inanely blaming republicanism for it .
Ireland leaving the UK did damage to both jurisdictions. We can fluff it up with all the flowery language we want, but thems the bones of it.
sorry, this is rubbish
Irish republicanism was and still is a failed ideology on this island. it has a majority support (kinda anyway) but not enough of a majority to make a proper go of it. .
it has a majority , Britian and unionism impose a veto over Irish democracy though . Hence your fluffy kinda and not enough of a majority . The problem isnt the lack of a republican majority , its th british ability to violate democracy in Ireland by gerrymandering and minority vetoes over it .
republicans don't do compromise, if they did, we mightn't be where we are today.
every republican leadership has spent the last century selling out democracy and sovereignty , thats why we are were we are today . Again your full of it .
Not that anyone will ever admit to it, but our rightful place was in a devolved UK.
what are you on about ? define this rightfulness ? Irish people didnt want to be part of the UK .
Irish politicians were well ahead of their time in that regard. but we threw them aside and went with nationalist extremists and we're still living with the consequences of that today
BALLS . Partition was brought in againt the modest and uselss home rule move . Not against republicanism . Your making it up as you go along in your quasi fascist fantasy world . We are were we are today as a result of british extremism and a refusal by britian and unionists to accept democracy in Ireland . Something they still refuse to do .
 


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