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Dissidents and pub security


cricket

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While I know that any story in it has a health warning , yesterday's Evening Herald provided worrying reading ( can't find link ). It was about pubs being made to accept door security from fronts for Continuity and Real IRA.
Then a friend today reminded me of an incident we both witnessed some years ago in Cork. Door staff on a newly opened pub all wore blazers with a crest of some republican club in Belfast. The pub didn't last too long as it turned out. Nevertheless , if there's anything behind the Herald story , it shows that these " dissidents " are merely racketeers.
 

cricket

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Maybe if your OP posed a question, rather than just your thoughts, it may have gotten a response :p
What would you like me to have asked :

Would you employ dissidents to mind your pub ?
 

Sean O'Brian

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Nevertheless , if there's anything behind the Herald story , it shows that these " dissidents " are merely racketeers.
Well, it could be a mixture of "dissidence" and racketerring. If you're saying these groups are mere fronts for organised crime, I would be surprised given the recent statement about going after bankers made by one of them. So I guess it would be a mixture.
 
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The article mentioned various incidents that have happened over the years, very short in real facts. Looked like a FAS course journo out on a "scoop". Who did you think ran doors and clubs in this country.??
 

MrDarcy

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Tis nice to know now that when you get told "not tonight mate regular's only, please stand away from the door", that the person making the decision on your character is most likely a subversive scumbag up to his neck in drugs, illegal firearms, punishment beatings, gangland murders and Christ only know's what else...
 

redhead101

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f you're saying these groups are mere fronts for organised crime, I would be surprised given the recent statement about going after bankers made by one of them.
Err, murder, even when the victim is a banker, IS a crime.
 

Grumpy Jack

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It appears that the criminals have had enough of the RIRA muscling in on their turf - some have banded together to form the Criminals' Action Force and declared war on "these vultures".

I jest not here - the CAF have issued a long statement which has been printed in full in today's Star.

It's like history repeating itself - didn't Martin Cahill and his cronies form a 'Concerned Criminals' outfit in the 1980s against the IRA and the so-called Concerned Communities Against Drugs?

Would be funny if it wasn't for the fact these CAF thugs have claimed one murder and are prepared to murder more.

If this is the case, the Gardai are going to have some trouble on their hands trying to keep criminal scum and terrorist scum (is there a difference really?) from killing each other and/or innocent bystanders.
 

Sean O'Brian

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Err, murder, even when the victim is a banker, IS a crime.
I know but when an organisation murders someone for political reasons that makes them more than a mere organised crime/racketeering outfit, it makes them a terrorist organisation. Just trying to differentiate here between ordinary crime for profit motive and terrorist activities.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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What would you like me to have asked :

Would you employ dissidents to mind your pub ?
I had heard, many years ago, that this sort of thing went on in London, involving pubs and clubs with Irish associations and London-based Irish criminals.

But the money was all being made on the sale of drugs and, as I heard it, the managers of the clubs and pubs were getting very substantial kick-backs, not paying protection-money.
 

Orando Broom

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Are pubs now required by law to have door people vetted by the Guards?

I'd imagine this practice will not last too long.
 
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There is a large gaping loophole that all elements exploit to get around the psa regulations, nothing will change. I'd say the star "letter" was cooked up by ger during his lunchhour, just to keep this going on and selling papers
 

Grumpy Jack

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There is a large gaping loophole that all elements exploit to get around the psa regulations, nothing will change. I'd say the star "letter" was cooked up by ger during his lunchhour, just to keep this going on and selling papers
Don't think so. You really don't have first clue how a newspaper operates.

The statement contained specific information known only to the criminals who carried out two attacks, including one recent murder, and the gardai who investigated.

According to Michael O'Toole's report, the gardai were unaware of this group's existence and are now investigating it fully.
 
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Oh really, gardai had no knowledge because it doesn't exist. Its herr gers latest ploy to boost circulation. Before assuming someone doesn't know what they are talking about, maybe ask the question how do they know these things. Even mick o'toole knows who provides the psa insurance and staff in dublin and the loophole that exists.
 

Mick O'Toole

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Oh really, gardai had no knowledge because it doesn't exist. Its herr gers latest ploy to boost circulation. Before assuming someone doesn't know what they are talking about, maybe ask the question how do they know these things. Even mick o'toole knows who provides the psa insurance and staff in dublin and the loophole that exists.
Hi John,

I wrote the article in good faith based on the information that I received. It is always tricky receiving statements like this because of the strong possibility that it is, obviously, a wind up. But as another poster has said, the statement did reveal four pieces of sigificant information about two shootings that were never in the public domain before.That included the calibre of the three weapons used in the attacks and the fact that the murdered man had a dog with him when he was killed. It was Daniel Gaynor in August this year in Blanchardstown. I covered that murder and there was never any information about him having a dog with him when he was shot. So, when I established independently that he did have a dog with him, I'm sure you can understand it did lend significant credence to the statement. As did the fact that they were able to say what calibre firearms were used in two separate shootings.
They were also able to connect the two shootings, again something that has never been publicised before, but which is, according to my information, true.
I'm sure you can see the quandry this statement put me and my bosses in: do we ignore it because of the legitimate fear that it might be a hoax, or do we run with it because of the probitive statements it included? There is, of course, the possibility that the person who gave me the statement was winding me up and managed to guess the calibre of the weapons and the presence of the dog. But I venture that possibility is quite small. We are not gardai, we are not judges, we are reporters. We get information, we check it, we pass it on. If there are any doubts, we provide a health warning, as we did with this. I wrote: "Crucially, the new group provided previously unpublished information about both shootings it mentioned - which only gardai and the attackers themselves knew. That lends significantly to the credibility of the statement, although the existence of the new group cannot be independently verified.
And sources say gardai have been previously unaware of the new group's existence - but are now fully investigating."
I think that was fair.
So we ran the statement and I am glad we did.
Oh, and it's easy for you to write nonsense behind a firewall of anonymity that the statement was Ger Colleran's invention. That's actually quite cowardly on your part, but whatever. However, for the sake of accuracy, the statement was given to me and no-one else.
Cheers,

Mick O'Toole
 
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Hi Mick,


I take the point regarding information passed to you and the effort involved to filter bs from fact. You are obviously correct, as part of your job to report these things. I posted first regarding cormac ( cant remeber 2nd name)article in the herald on wednesday. This article, in my opinion, was filler. It mentioned ballymount and other refs to incidents that had nothing to do with this latest killing. I have read various articles over the past number of years and detest the level of spin that surrounds them, Williams being the worst culprit. Thats were my ire is directed.

With regard to the "statement" by criminals as reported, i cannot see any group or union of criminals issuing such a statement. As your well aware, this country is like a village and while tensions will run high from time to time, these people like the anonimity provided, not pushing themselves into a headlong battle with subversives.

I can only take your word that this wasn't dreamt up and i'm happy to accept your bona fides on this, it wouldn't be unheard of in Irish journo circles for something like this to pop up and disappear as quick due to a lack of credible evidence or pressure from the gpo.From my part, i don't see my posts as cowardly at all and i welcome any views you have on my reply or feel free to pm me for further discussion on the above. I did however note that my comment about the loophole in the psa was not addressed, but then maybe we are in agreement on that.

Regards;
John
 

Mick O'Toole

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Yes John, you are absolutely correct about the PSA loophole. You may have seen Conor Lally's piece in the Times on Wednesday in relation to a suspect for the Sean Winters murder having a PSA licence.
Look, I accept people are jaundiced ans cynical about journos and I shared your scepticism about criminals issuing statements. I have never heard of anything similar in the 10+ years I have been a crime reporter im Dublin. That's why we thought long and hard before running it, even after we had checked the bona fides of it.
This story ia extremely problematical. I don't want to be a postbox for criminals; I don't want the heat this will bring, in the shape of an inevitable Garda inquiry into where it came from which could see me arrested; I don't want, if it is an elaborate hoax, for someone to be sitting laughing at me/us. But, at the same time, I do not want to ignore a statement that has credible information in it.
 

mothball

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By any chance, was the source a man dressed in blue sitting in a white car with lights on the roof? It would explain the knowledge of a crime and the continual slurring of Republican groups who have never been linked to the drugs trade to any serious degree.
 
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