DIY abortions in Ireland

Ingersoll

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Jun 28, 2010
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Lets be brief. It is a black and white issue. There is no room for what aboutery. Abortion is wrong because it INTENTIONALLY KILLS innocent human beings. Thou shall not kill. Public opinion polls in the Irish Times do not alter that reality.
The use of all-caps adds nothing to your ignorant argument. Thou shall most certainly kill should the need arise - despite what your funny book would have you believe. Abortion is a necessity in some cases - live with it or go cry to your priest.
 


liamfoley

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Abortion is happening either through export or importation of drugs. The evidence continues to suggest the moral argument is already lost, it's about protecting the women who make the choice.
A here we go again - more claptrap about 'killing the unborn child'. Emotional phrase used to justify the denial of a woman's right to choose
Choice, choose, choose what? Paper or plastic? No, choose abortion. Lets call it what it is. What is abortion? In this context it is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. So is the object of the abortion human? If so then surely abortion is wrong. If you accept that taking the life of a human being is wrong and that the unborn human life is human then taking the life of the unborn is wrong. Now if you say that the unborn human is not a human being then you must define what a human being is and when life begins. If you accept that we are dealing with a human being then the circumstances of conception should not alter the status and the rights allocated to the human being in question. Likewise the conditions under which it will live after birth do not alter its status.
 

Radix

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A here we go again - more claptrap about 'killing the unborn child'. Emotional phrase used to justify the denial of a woman's right to choose
Since you are posting here jimwin, I think it's pretty safe to assume that your own mother's "right to choose", swung in favour of you being born.

I applaud her choice, despite your opinions, which deride her choice, and ultimately you yourself.

As they say, "oft hath a man cut a rod, with which to beat himself".
 

jimwin

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Since you are posting here jimwin, I think it's pretty safe to assume that your own mother's "right to choose", swung in favour of you being born.

I applaud her choice, despite your opinions, which deride her choice, and ultimately you yourself.

As they say, "oft hath a man cut a rod, with which to beat himself".
I would rather not personalise this if you don't mind. I respect the right of all woman, including my mother, to control their own reproductive health. I do not believe the Sate should interfere with woman exercising that right
 

Luigi Vampa

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Pro-life Vs Pro-"choice" ? - There is no choice to make, the right to life wins everytime.
 

FreshStart

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Sep 26, 2010
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I'm fed up with this debate. I grew up in the 80's and the Catholic Church and stupid FF ran the country with an iron fist.

This is what happens when we let these bastards run the show.

Irish Examiner - 2004/01/26: The Virgin Mary and the 'tainted' teenage girl who came to her for sanctuary

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Lovett"]Anne Lovett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Shamrock.svg" class="image"><img alt="Stub icon" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Shamrock.svg/23px-Shamrock.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/8/8c/Shamrock.svg/23px-Shamrock.svg.png[/ame]

This story quite simply broke my heart and I don't think any young teenage girl from the 1980's can ever forget the pain and loss of what happened here.

Back then, we had pro-life facists such as SPUC and Youth Defence. Heck, there were even two crazy old ladies on O'Connell Street bashing young women over the head for being, well, young women.

Like our unemployed, Ireland has always exported its problem, How do you revoke one's citizenship? I've had enough. We're just going around in a one big stupid circle.
 

liamfoley

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I would rather not personalise this if you don't mind. I respect the right of all woman, including my mother, to control their own reproductive health. I do not believe the Sate should interfere with woman exercising that right
Using expressions like "reproductive health" masks that abortion is a procedure that ends life. If you believe that is a good thing then defend your position. Why is it good that a life would be ended by a violent procedure?
 

Radix

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I would rather not personalise this if you don't mind. I respect the right of all woman, including my mother, to control their own reproductive health. I do not believe the Sate should interfere with woman exercising that right
Why would you rather not personalise this? Is it because we are talking about persons? Surely this is the lie upon which those who support pre-birth abortion rely; that the entity within the human womb is not in fact a person! If not, what can be the consequence of this false assumption?

So which of your siblings, (don't exclude yourself), would you prefer not to have been born, following on from your support of pre- birth abortion?

Do you see what I'm getting at here?
 

liamfoley

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I'm fed up with this debate. I grew up in the 80's and the Catholic Church and stupid FF ran the country with an iron fist.

This is what happens when we let these bastards run the show.

Irish Examiner - 2004/01/26: The Virgin Mary and the 'tainted' teenage girl who came to her for sanctuary

Anne Lovett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This story quite simply broke my heart and I don't think any young teenage girl from the 1980's can ever forget the pain and loss of what happened here.

Back then, we had pro-life facists such as SPUC and Youth Defence. Heck, there were even two crazy old ladies on O'Connell Street bashing young women over the head for being, well, young women.

Like our unemployed, Ireland has always exported its problem, How do you revoke one's citizenship? I've had enough. We're just going around in a one big stupid circle.
High on emotion but low on fact, that is no addition to this debate.
 

jimwin

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Oct 7, 2010
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I don't see the issue as a moral argument about what is right or what is wrong. I see the argument as one of the right of a woman to control her own reproductive health, fertility, or whatever term you choose. The right of a woman to her bodily integrity is human right. Something which women are born with and something that should not be taken away.
 

liamfoley

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Jun 27, 2008
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I don't see the issue as a moral argument about what is right or what is wrong. I see the argument as one of the right of a woman to control her own reproductive health, fertility, or whatever term you choose. The right of a woman to her bodily integrity is human right. Something which women are born with and something that should not be taken away.
But it is not just her body, there is another distinctly human body. Both have an equal right to life. Humans exist before they are born thus their human rights exist before thy are born.
 

Luigi Vampa

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Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,225
I'm fed up with this debate. I grew up in the 80's and the Catholic Church and stupid FF ran the country with an iron fist.

This is what happens when we let these bastards run the show.

Irish Examiner - 2004/01/26: The Virgin Mary and the 'tainted' teenage girl who came to her for sanctuary

Anne Lovett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This story quite simply broke my heart and I don't think any young teenage girl from the 1980's can ever forget the pain and loss of what happened here.

Back then, we had pro-life facists such as SPUC and Youth Defence. Heck, there were even two crazy old ladies on O'Connell Street bashing young women over the head for being, well, young women.

Like our unemployed, Ireland has always exported its problem, How do you revoke one's citizenship? I've had enough. We're just going around in a one big stupid circle.
So the solution for Anne Lovett's is that their unborn children should be killed in the womb nice and “humanly” by abortionists ?
 

jimwin

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But it is not just her body, it is another distinctly human body. Both have an equal right to life. Humans exist before they are born thus their human rights exist before thy are born.
I take it your belief is that the fertilised ovum is a human? I don't share your belief but respect your right to have that view.
 

liamfoley

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Jun 27, 2008
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So - The Anne Lovett case didn't happen ?

And I suppose the parents of the 9 year old rape victim in Brazil who had an abortion were not excommunicated ?
If abortion is wrong then it is wrong regardless of the circumstances, The Lovett case is irrelevant to this debate because there was no abortion. If you want to introduce it at least link it to the debate.
 

ellie08

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Nov 2, 2008
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12,325
So the solution for Anne Lovett's is that their unborn children should be killed in the womb nice and “humanly” by abortionists ?
Well she'd be alive today if she'd had an abortion. She may have gone on to have children when she was able to look after them properly. As it is she and her unborn child died a lonely death out in the cold.
 


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