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DMP Detectives


Aristodemus

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I have been watching Seachtar Na Cásca on TG4 and noticed that during the various surrenders the leaders of the Rising were all identified by detectives prior to being charged, court-martialled and shot. There seems to be very little said or written about these gentlemen around this time and during the War of Independence. I cannot believe that all of them, or indeed any of them, migrated north in 1922 which would suggest that they transferred seamlessly into the Garda Siochána.
Their stories would make very interesting reading.
 

sgtharper

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Weren't those concerned all attached to the DMP's "G" Division which was the unit specifically concerned with monitoring "politicals"? A fair few were murdered by the IRA in the course of the W.of I. but no doubt some would have stayed on after the Treaty, perhaps dealing with ordinary criminal enquiries? Of course the DMP remained a separate policing entity until absorbed into the Garda Síochána in 1925. My father, born in 1911, often spoke of the DMP patrolling the streets of inner-city Dublin when he was a lad and recalled getting a swipe across the backside from a rolled-up policeman's cape on many an occasion. They were notably tall men by all accounts, and were often referred to as the "Irish Giants" in the UK press of the day.
 

sgtharper

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is that the same as the RIC ?
No, prior to Partition, Dublin had it's own police force, the Dublin Metropolitan Police or DMP, whereas the rest of the country was policed by the RIC.
 
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Ramzi Nohra

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Aristedmos
I did read quite a few of the initial Catholics in the RIC were ex-RIC from the South.

I would have thought any involved in killings of republicans - like Igoe in Mayo (?) would have fled to Mother Britain after independence. Without getting emotive, they had spent the previous few years trying to frustrate the will of the people. Now the people were in charge the new Republic wasnt going to be a place for them.

(I would imagine they saw their work as suppressing terrorism of course)

Sgt Thaper
I find it slightly strange, if you dont mind me saying, that the killing of G division detectives is described as "Murder". They were combatants at a time of war.


You are right of course re: the DMP. A lot of them provided information to the IRA during the War of Independence.
 

Dohville

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No, prior to Partition, Dublin had it's own police force, the Dublin Metropolitan Police or DMP, whereas the rest of the country was policed by the RIC.
The DMP remained in place for some time after independence also, being merged with the Garda Siochana (which was formed by the Provisional Government in 1922)only in 1925. In the Gardai it is still referred to as the Dublin Metropolitan area. There are a number of laws that are unique to this area, dating from DMP times, mostly dealing with begging, street trading and keeping of horses...
These laws have no effect outside the DMA.
G Division would have almost exclusively have been responsible for working against the revolutionaries of 1916-1922. The DMP did not take as active an involvement as the RIC did. 5 G men were killed by the IRA.
 

eoghanacht

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Scum
 

TheCitizen

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Piaras Beaslai gives a vivid account of the process in Michael Collins and the Making of a New Ireland (1926):

On Sunday morning the prisoners were brought to Richmond Barracks. They were placed sitting on the floor of the gymnasium, and the political detectives of the 'G' Division of the Dublin Police came like a flock of carrion crows to pick out 'suspects' for court martial. I was one of the first to be picked out, and for the rest of the day could watch the detectives passing to and fro among the two thousand prisoners studying their faces for victims for the firing squad. Anybody who had seen that sight may be pardoned if he felt little compunction at the subsequent shooting of these same 'G' men.

One of the G-men named is a Detective Daniel Hoey. He was the man who pulled Sean MacDiarmada out of a line of prisoners who were on their way to Portland prison. Hoey was subsequently killed on the orders of Collins.
 

eoghanacht

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Dohville

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Didn't Collins have a Spy working in G Division too? (and not Ned Broy, he wasn't a G man).
 

Oldira1

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The DMP remained in place for some time after independence also, being merged with the Garda Siochana (which was formed by the Provisional Government in 1922)only in 1925. In the Gardai it is still referred to as the Dublin Metropolitan area. There are a number of laws that are unique to this area, dating from DMP times, mostly dealing with begging, street trading and keeping of horses...
These laws have no effect outside the DMA.
G Division would have almost exclusively have been responsible for working against the revolutionaries of 1916-1922. The DMP did not take as active an involvement as the RIC did. 5 G men were killed by the IRA.
Actually it was 11. All were killed in 1919 and the first few months of 1920 most on Collins direct orders. After this the DMP withdrew from political policing and were replaced by the military...the targets on Bloody Sunday.
 

sgtharper

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Sgt Thaper
I find it slightly strange, if you dont mind me saying, that the killing of G division detectives is described as "Murder". They were combatants at a time of war.
You have your opinions, I have mine.
 

Grumpy Jack

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Good account of Collins's '12 Apostles' targeting G men and British Intelligence in The Squad by T Ryle Dwyer. It's based on interviews given by surviving 'apostles' and IRA Intelligence officers to the Military Archives in the 40s and 50s. Very detailed, first hand account of the actions by the men who carried them out.
 

Fir Bolg

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Aristedmos
I did read quite a few of the initial Catholics in the RIC were ex-RIC from the South.

I would have thought any involved in killings of republicans - like Igoe in Mayo (?)
Igoe was more active in Dublin but was originally from Mayo. His gang were responsible for shooting Vol Joe Howley (Statue in Oranmore, Co. Galway) at Broadstone Station.

IIRC an attempt was made on Igoe's life in Portadown or Lurgan but he escaped.

He never returned to his home place in Mayo.
 
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