• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Do some employers not want to employ the current unemployed in Ireland?


realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,402
Just read a law advise column on the Limerick Post. In this article an Individual who owns a nursing home queries the legality of employing foreign workers. The individual admits to 'recruiting overseas quite a lot'. In this age of mass unemployment in Ireland should more restrictions be placed on recruiting from outside the EU? Surely we have plenty of individuals in this State who would be willing to take up employment in nursing homes? Is it a case that some employers want these workers so they can exploit them?

Article is on the current Limerick post digital edition.

Limerick Post Newspaper
 


stakerwallace

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
13,426
Exploit, quite likely and be more compliant also with little knowledge of local labour laws.
 

mickterry

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
1,307
Exploit, quite likely and be more compliant also with little knowledge of local labour laws.
It is not only foreign workers who get exploited unfortunatly. Where I work there are a lot of relief workers used. At times they are expected to breach work time conditions, not long enough between shifts, working 24 hours without a break etc. Problem is if they complain, they will not be offered any hours. This is typical of labour market reform which is in fact a race to the bottom in relation to pay and conditions
 

Mad as Fish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,449
It is not only foreign workers who get exploited unfortunatly. Where I work there are a lot of relief workers used. At times they are expected to breach work time conditions, not long enough between shifts, working 24 hours without a break etc. Problem is if they complain, they will not be offered any hours. This is typical of labour market reform which is in fact a race to the bottom in relation to pay and conditions
I would quite agree and the labour laws are merely laughed at, in fact in my experience a lot of smaller employers haven't a clue what they are and more to the point don't want to know. Exploitation is rife and getting worse with the general attitude being that if you don't want the job then there are plenty who do. No wonder the youth are leaving in droves.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,402
The bulk of people on the dole are construction workers and from related professions. I can perfectly believe there is a shortage of Irish people willing to work in nursing homes.

There is also a great shortage of software developers. There just aren't enough in the country.
There was no shortage of workers in Nursing home before the Celtic tiger boom.
 

daveL

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,591
Just read a law advise column on the Limerick Post. In this article an Individual who owns a nursing home queries the legality of employing foreign workers. The individual admits to 'recruiting overseas quite a lot'. In this age of mass unemployment in Ireland should more restrictions be placed on recruiting from outside the EU? Surely we have plenty of individuals in this State who would be willing to take up employment in nursing homes? Is it a case that some employers want these workers so they can exploit them?

Article is on the current Limerick post digital edition.

Limerick Post Newspaper
maybe the government has made it so expensive to employ someone all the while also making it disadvantageous for certain people on welfare to come off welfare for new work that the only alternative is to recruit from abroad...
 

Telemachus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
6,565
Website
en.wikipedia.org
The bulk of people on the dole are construction workers and from related professions. I can perfectly believe there is a shortage of Irish people willing to work in nursing homes.

There is also a great shortage of software developers. There just aren't enough in the country.
In any closed free labour market wages would increase in areas of demand, people would either retrain or come though the education system & move into the gaps over time. What we have now is an advanced neo-liberal or right-liberal model of economics & at the same time liers and spoofers in the recruiting areas crying about skills shortages because they cant get cheaper third world labour fast enough. The vision is of a high mobile global workforce, forget about the local 15% unemployed, actually encourage them to emigrate.

PS: Check out the diversity fest on page 30. See how many standard liberal cannards you can find.
 

paulp

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
7,284
There was no shortage of workers in Nursing home before the Celtic tiger boom.
How many people resided in nursing homes in 1995 compared to today?
I don't know, but would believe it has substantially increased, hence substantially increasing number of workers required.
 

Fides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
4,441
This will be an unwelcome comment here but if the choice was employ a Polish person or an Irish person in a lower paid job for the same wage I would employ the Polish person. My experience is they have a better attitude both in terms of the amount of work they do and the attitude with which they do it. They are enthusiastic, keen and always willing to please and even find ways of doing the job better.

Before the opening of our borders to the new EU states while we had office cleaners (Irish) my office was never actually cleaned properly. Once the cleaners went non Irish they actually cleaned the office properly and took pride in their work.

Cue the tirade of abuse
 

paulp

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
7,284
In any closed free labour market wages would increase in areas of demand, people would either retrain or come though the education system & move into the gaps over time. What we have now is an advanced neo-liberal or right-liberal model of economics & at the same time liers and spoofers in the recruiting areas crying about skills shortages because they cant get cheaper third world labour fast enough. The vision is of a high mobile global workforce, forget about the local 15% unemployed, actually encourage them to emigrate.

PS: Check out the diversity fest on page 30. See how many standard liberal cannards you can find.
Whatever about working in nursing homes, there is no cheap third world option for supply of resources in the software industry.
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,402
maybe the government has made it so expensive to employ someone all the while also making it disadvantageous for certain people on welfare to come off welfare for new work that the only alternative is to recruit from abroad...
Why would it be a disadvantage for a young person on 100+euro to come of social welfare? This is a bogus argument thrown out by employers who would like to pay a very low rate.
 

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,441
In any closed free labour market wages would increase in areas of demand, people would either retrain or come though the education system & move into the gaps over time.
Just to explain something of what Seabhcan said about software developers, the problem at the high end of development is more to do with the quality of people's education and their expertise. It is possible to train school leavers to be software developers at an ordinary level (Little websites, Access Databases, Apps and similar applications) but when you get to the rarified levels of software and systems architects, there's a whole new level of expertise, much of which is not gained from simple college courses but from actual experience, that becomes part of the equation. Of a class of computer science graduates, only a handful will get to this level. Unfortunately this is the level at which the Googles and Facebooks are created.

Regards...jmcc
 

mickterry

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
1,307
There was no shortage of workers in Nursing home before the Celtic tiger boom.
Possibly true. But at the moment nursing homes in a lot of cases employ people with only minimal qualifications and little experience so that they don't have to be paid too well. Its not just nursing homes either. The crowd I work for got 3.7 million from thestate last year and they pay lip service to pay and conditions. One member of staff was reduced to tears by a manager during the week with a level of abuse that would have to be heardto be believed. The member of staff in question believes she would lose her job if she complained. Wecome to employment in Ireland 2012
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,402
This will be an unwelcome comment here but if the choice was employ a Polish person or an Irish person in a lower paid job for the same wage I would employ the Polish person. My experience is they have a better attitude both in terms of the amount of work they do and the attitude with which they do it. They are enthusiastic, keen and always willing to please and even find ways of doing the job better.

Before the opening of our borders to the new EU states while we had office cleaners (Irish) my office was never actually cleaned properly. Once the cleaners went non Irish they actually cleaned the office properly and took pride in their work.

Cue the tirade of abuse
Looks like you would be the type to put on a pair of white gloves and check for dust. There is also plenty of Polish people unemployed in Ireland, that would love to work in nursing homes
 

Mad as Fish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,449
maybe the government has made it so expensive to employ someone all the while also making it disadvantageous for certain people on welfare to come off welfare for new work that the only alternative is to recruit from abroad...
The cost of employing somebody should be the same where ever they are from. If an employer believes that foreign workers are cheaper than that suggests they are merely out to exploit them. Should people find themselves better off on welfare then perhaps the wages are too low rather than welfare too high. The cost of living in Ireland is higher than both Germany and the UK although price comparisons only tell half the story.
 

Fides

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
4,441
Looks like you would be the type to put on a pair of white gloves and check for dust. There is also plenty of Polish people unemployed in Ireland, that would love to work in nursing homes
Nope but if you worked in offices in the 90s you would know what I mean.
 

Kitty O'Shea

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,553
Some employers pay their staff "under the desk" , last year I worked in a B&B and was let go again very quickly once the owner realised the cost to herself in tax etc. After I'd gone, she let go 6 other staff and pay tax for the few remaining staff. She said she couldn't afford to pay me, even and she knocked a couple of hours off my pay packet. Funnily enough the Revenue Commissioners & dole office knew what she was up to but nothing was ever done.
I should add that the experienced staff said this was common practice in B&Bs.
 

daveL

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,591
Why would it be a disadvantage for a young person on 100+euro to come of social welfare? This is a bogus argument thrown out by employers who would like to pay a very low rate.
That's a bogus retort. There are more than young people in receipt of social welfare. There are many parents who can not afford to come of welfare.
 

daveL

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,591
Just to explain something of what Seabhcan said about software developers, the problem at the high end of development is more to do with the quality of people's education and their expertise. It is possible to train school leavers to be software developers at an ordinary level (Little websites, Access Databases, Apps and similar applications) but when you get to the rarified levels of software and systems architects, there's a whole new level of expertise, much of which is not gained from simple college courses but from actual experience, that becomes part of the equation. Of a class of computer science graduates, only a handful will get to this level. Unfortunately this is the level at which the Googles and Facebooks are created.

Regards...jmcc
Anti intellectual Ireland simply can not understand such a concept. Sure all it takes is a few conversion courses.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top