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Do supermarkets Decreate jobs


richie268

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I was thinking the other day as I watched Cowen open a supermarket in Naas that the looneys have lost the plot, Bonds heading for 8% and the Clown is opening a Tesco .
I know one thing about Supermarkets they do not create JOBS they streamline and the net result is more unemployment.
I am open to correction.
 

Nermal

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At one of our dinners, Milton recalled traveling to an Asian country in the 1960s and visiting a worksite where a new canal was being built. He was shocked to see that, instead of modern tractors and earth movers, the workers had shovels. He asked why there were so few machines. The government bureaucrat explained: "You don't understand. This is a jobs program." To which Milton replied: "Oh, I thought you were trying to build a canal. If it's jobs you want, then you should give these workers spoons, not shovels."

Missing Milton: Who Will Speak For Free Markets? - WSJ.com
 

Sync

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Your OPs are consistently terrible. If you "know" this why not provide evidence? Where did you read about it? There's a bunch of very good working papers and books on the effect of stores like Walmart and Tescos, why not reference them?

Useless.
 

politicaldonations

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Consumers get their goods cheaper. They have more money to spend elsewhere or invest which creates jobs or at least has potential to create jobs.
 

roc_

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It's "creative destruction"
- the reality of innovation, beyond the bull talked in the ST supplements.

And you're right - it does destroy jobs. It replaces all of the people employed in the smaller SME retail businesses with one big business that can do the same thing with far less people, and that has far greater power to squeeze producers so that it gets its goods for less. - This further forces producers to lower its costs, which likely means doing the same thing with less labour resources.

In an expanding market, the people displaced in the above process are then freed up to work in other expanding businesses.

However, in a shrinking market, such as is the dynamic during recessionary times, it indeed exacerbates unemployment.

Winston Churchill said, "We must beware of needless innovation".
 

TradCat

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I'm old enough to remember Ireland before Supermarkets. The shops were horrible dirty places. Some of them used to close for lunch and take a half-day on Wednesday.
 

ICallely

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I suppose it comes down to the policy/hopes/aspirations that a society wishes to embrace.

Is the desire to have employment, or an efficient food supply, or somewhere in between?

The post war experience with hunger defined the food policy of the EU; cheap, plentiful food.

The large supermarket chain is a very efficient way of delivering this.

Artisan food production is more labour intensive and thus can drive up costs, depending on the labour costs.

Ireland being an open economy means that the price paid for food has a local and international component - the main costs are, at the very base of things, energy and labour.

If we chose artisan food and our local costs are low it is possible to compete, however that is currently not the case.

So, for the moment, we have chosen cheap food over jobs.
 

TradCat

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I, Callely

Artisan food has never been more plentiful. Farmers markets are thriving (often in the car parks of supermarkets) It isn't an either/or situation. We can save on the basics by having supermarkets and enjoy the top class food too if we want it.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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It's "creative destruction"
- the reality of innovation, beyond the bull talked in the ST supplements.

And you're right - it does destroy jobs. It replaces all of the people employed in the smaller SME retail businesses with one big business that can do the same thing with far less people, and that has far greater power to squeeze producers so that it gets its goods for less. - This further forces producers to lower its costs, which likely means doing the same thing with less labour resources.

In an expanding market, the people displaced in the above process are then freed up to work in other expanding businesses.

However, in a shrinking market, such as is the dynamic during recessionary times, it indeed exacerbates unemployment.

Winston Churchill said, "We must beware of needless innovation".
I agree with you on the bit about possibly freeing up labour in an expanding market. However you are not taking the cost saving made on food purchases in a supermarket into account. With less money spent on food in theory people should have more money to spend on other goods and services therefore either generating or helping to keep jobs in those areas during contraction.
 

owedtojoy

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I was thinking the other day as I watched Cowen open a supermarket in Naas that the looneys have lost the plot, Bonds heading for 8% and the Clown is opening a Tesco .
I know one thing about Supermarkets they do not create JOBS they streamline and the net result is more unemployment.
I am open to correction.
I think it often depends on location.

Tescos have opened in Kinnegad, which already had a small Supervalu. The town is near the motorway & west of the toll gate, so it will get lot of customers who will use its big car park. Not sure what that means for the Supervalu - it has a small car park, but overall may lose to the more accessible store.

In Navan, a LIDL opened oppsite a Supervalu - but I think the Supervalu car park is actually more full than it used to be, so they may have gained from new customers coming to the area. There is no pedestrian crossing to get to the LIDL (!) so Supervalu have kept their local customers (I reckon).

Navan had a brilliant small bookshop, one of the best I have ever been in. It even had a Philosophy section! In Navan! However, Easons have opened up a street away and nearer the car park so my favourite shop is closed. Easons are a big bookseller, but don't give a monkey's for literature - books are all just commodities to them. Ask for a book, and no one on the staff have a clue.

Thanks for giving me the chance to complain about that!!
 

Tea Party Patriot

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I think it often depends on location.

Tescos have opened in Kinnegad, which already had a small Supervalu. The town is near the motorway & west of the toll gate, so it will get lot of customers who will use its big car park. Not sure what that means for the Supervalu - it has a small car park, but overall may lose to the more accessible store.

In Navan, a LIDL opened oppsite a Supervalu - but I think the Supervalu car park is actually more full than it used to be, so they may have gained from new customers coming to the area. There is no pedestrian crossing to get to the LIDL (!) so Supervalu have kept their local customers (I reckon).

Navan had a brilliant small bookshop, one of the best I have ever been in. It even had a Philosophy section! In Navan! However, Easons have opened up a street away and nearer the car park so my favourite shop is closed. Easons are a big bookseller, but don't give a monkey's for literature - books are all just commodities to them. Ask for a book, and no one on the staff have a clue.

Thanks for giving me the chance to complain about that!!
I have to agree with you on Easons if you are looking for books on philosophy, history or the esoteric it is way below par in comparison to some of the smaller bookshops. Of course people buying those type of books are a small market so yes bigger isn't necessarily better.

On your points about Kinnegad, I have see the same in smaller town near me, a Tesco or a Dunnes stores actually ensures that local shoppers stay local rather than travelling to the larger towns or cities and helps keep local jobs.
 

Macy

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I'm not sure I see Supervalu (/Centra) that different from the likes of Dunnes or Tesco - they have national buying power and take custom away from the true indepedents. I'm not a retail expert, but as I understand it Supervalu is essentially the same model as Easons that is decried above - franchise stores with national buying.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Is "decreate" a word?
No its not, but then look at all the words the EU has created, perhaps this thred is trying to catch up with them:)
 

mr_anderson

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I'm old enough to remember Ireland before Supermarkets. The shops were horrible dirty places. Some of them used to close for lunch and take a half-day on Wednesday.
Thank you.
Why is it that people always have rose-tinted glasses when looking back into the past ?

Supermarkets now offer unparrelled choice - it's up to the shopper to make the decision.

It is those decisions which impact on jobs, not supermarkets themselves.
 

Twin Towers

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Tesco in the UK has become the only supermarket in many places with the alternative being another Tesco further away.
 

Clanrickard

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I agree with you on the bit about possibly freeing up labour in an expanding market. However you are not taking the cost saving made on food purchases in a supermarket into account. With less money spent on food in theory people should have more money to spend on other goods and services therefore either generating or helping to keep jobs in those areas during contraction.
For every job the Hypermarket create 3 are lost on average. The people with no jobs have less money to spend not more. More Tesco means less jobs, less choice and is bad for the environment.
 

richie268

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It is possible that eventually we go down the road of food stamps and governments would like to keep things rather simple in the sense that the recipient will have a choice of Tesco Dunnes Superquinn or Iceland and the local shopkeeper an so on are sent to Mexico.
We are all heading the American way whether we like it or not.
 
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Fides

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Be interesting for someone to look at the effect of IKea in Ballymun on furniture and other businesses in its radius. I have been to it twice and it has been very busy - literally hundreds of people and this was midweek. It would be fairly easy to spot if local furniture stores had closed.

On books one of the side effects of Tesco is they stock the bestsellers and sell them very cheaply depriving book stores of the fast sellers. They sold the last Harry Potter book very cheaply I remember. Just like Aldi and Lidl they use non food items to draw the customer in.

The answer for smaller retailers is to be different - large supermarkets cannot deal with little artisan suppliers - the systems just don't let them. There is a market there but it is more specialist. It is the mid size retailers that find it hard to compete, smaller ones tend to be more flexible and can offer the servcie.
 
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