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Do We Have an Innate Thirst For Blood!


Septic Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
428
It would appear that throughout our history a good portion of humans have always enjoyed the spectacle of a fight.

Some people derive a very disturbing "pleasure" from watching despicably cruel dog fights or **** fights etc. Thankfully these are completely illegal in most civilised countries. Yet, in modern Spain, defenseless bulls are tormented then slowly killed for the audience's viewing pleasure.

Cruelty to animals in the name of entertainment is hardly surprising given that not long ago (in evolutionary terms) barbarians were sent into the colosseums to fight it out, Christians were torn apart by lions and all the while, the crowds sat transfixed and enthralled by the horror of the spectacle.

While we still get to enjoy a bit of good old fashioned hand to hand combat through boxing and martial arts, recently, the MMA and UFC have brought violence for entertainment to a brutally unmitigated level.

At the average MMA fight it's not uncommon to see people smashed in the face and head with knees, elbows etc. Noses and jaws are broken, blood splatters the canvas and God knows what internal injuries are sustained.

The surprise about all of this? It's a massive, legal, commercialised, highly profitable and growing "sport".

Bad enough as it is, it appears that some of the participants are not satisfied with the loosely regulated MMA which requires fighters to wear gloves and that matches must be refereed, and they've decided to participate in organised "street fights".

The video below is taken from youtube, it's freely available without age restriction and it's had hundreds of thousands of hits.


[video=youtube;kL7p4839l24]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL7p4839l24[/video]


What I'm wondering is,

1. Where does this brutally violent "sport" end? Will they introduce weapons next?
2. Is it healthy to view this stuff as entertainment?
 
D

Dylan2010

real life Hunger Games perhaps, 2 teams of bankers and politicians fight to the death on a NAMA ghost estate. We have to sweat these assets somehow.
 

Little_Korean

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
4,231
Welcome to human nature.

Even the odd saint had a thing for blood sports:

Alipius pursuing his views in the world, according to the inclinations of his parents, went to Rome to study the law. In that city he was drawn into an incredible passion for the barbarous shows of the amphitheatre, or fights of gladiators; for he being at first very averse from such diversions, some of his friends and school-fellows meeting him one day after dinner, with a familiar violence, led him, much against his will, to those tragical sports which were then exhibiting. He resisted them all the way, and said to them: “If you haul my body thither, can you force me to turn my mind or my eyes upon those shows? I shall be absent therefore, though present in body.” Yet they did not desist, but carried him with them. When they had taken their seats, and the cruel sports began, Alipius shut his eyes, that his soul might not take any delight in such wicked objects; and would to God, says St. Austin, he had shut his ears too; for hearing a great shout of the people, he was overcome by curiosity, and opened his eyes, designing only to see what the matter was, and to despise it; and then shut them again. But to show us how much our safety depends upon our shunning the occasions of evil, and shutting out all dangerous objects from our soul, he fell by this curiosity. One of the combatants was wounded; and Alipius by the sight received a more grievous wound in his soul, whilst he was more bold than strong; though indeed he was so much the weaker, inasmuch as he presumed of himself, instead of confiding only in God. He no sooner beheld the blood of the wounded gladiator, but instead of turning away his eyes, he fixed them on the savage spectacle, sucked in all the fury, and was made drunk by the cruel pleasure of those criminal and barbarous combats. He was not now the man he came, but one of the multitude with which he mingled. He looked on, he shouted, he took fire, he carried away with him a madness by which he was incited to return again, even among the foremost of his companions, and to draw others with him
 
D

Dylan2010

as a serious comment I have heard some interesting theories about how this relates to the social mood, remember that all those torture game shows started in Japan at the start of their property bust. And now be it movies , gameshows etc there appears to be an increasing amount of violence or humiliation on TV.
 

Dan_Murphy

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
3,811
real life Hunger Games perhaps, 2 teams of bankers and politicians fight to the death on a NAMA ghost estate. We have to sweat these assets somehow.
Make it Pay-Per-View, budget deficit could be taken care of overnight.
 

mary_queen_of_the_gael

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Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
3,189
The Holy Bible tells us it begins in the minds of people and that is true.

Look how popular World Wide Wrestling is. Look how posters here exulted in drug addicts being assaulted in Dublin and how they mocked an old woman who tried to stop it.

Most sport is only codified warfare. The British and French armies codified many of today's popular games in the 19th century. Now why would armies do that?
 

Hitch 22

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Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
MMA is highly controlled and strictly refereed. So this OP is total BS. Written by someone who probably knows f*ck all about martial arts disciplines.
Anyone who knows about the sport knows that it is not a free for all but is participated in by fighters who are highly trained in a variety of martial arts disciplines. The MMA is less about beating the opponent with fists and kicks but more to do with grappling and pinning him in a hold. Fighters are no more injured than boxers are.
Martial arts is not about ferocity but it is about controlled aggression, discipline and character.
I have met MMA fighters and others who practise martial arts and they are gentlemen who won't hurt a fly outside of the ring.
I practise martial arts myself - not MMA - it has nothing to do with blood thirst but is actually more about being gentle and non violent and resolving conflict peacefully without resorting to force.
Most martial arts use a scale similar to - pain, hurt, injure, maim and kill.
You train to use the appropriate level of force against an opponent.
Most confrontations will never occur if you first use respect and kindness and manners to disarm an opponent.

The fact is that most people are non-violent and would recoil in fear if they were assaulted.

In wars only a tiny few - psychopaths - can fight and kill without suffering from fear or anxiety, depression or guilt. During World War 2 statistics showed that only a tiny minority in most U.S. military units actually aimed and fired their weapons at the enemy and most casualties resulted from shelling rather than from gunfire.

The natural instinct is NOT to kill and there is a natural aversion among most people AGAINST killing.

The upsurge in battle fatigue and post traumatic since Vietnam and the Iraq War is due to the modern training and conditioning which means men will kill on reflex overcoming their natural aversion and fear.
After they return to civilian life many men who seemed fine, fall to pieces and resort to alcohol, drugs and suicide to escape horrifying flashbacks and nightmares.
Only a tiny minority of people can experience war or other extreme violence and have no disturbance whatsoever.
 
Last edited:

iartaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,232
It would appear that throughout our history a good portion of humans have always enjoyed the spectacle of a fight.

Some people derive a very disturbing "pleasure" from watching despicably cruel dog fights or **** fights etc. Thankfully these are completely illegal in most civilised countries. Yet, in modern Spain, defenseless bulls are tormented then slowly killed for the audience's viewing pleasure.

Cruelty to animals in the name of entertainment is hardly surprising given that not long ago (in evolutionary terms) barbarians were sent into the colosseums to fight it out, Christians were torn apart by lions and all the while, the crowds sat transfixed and enthralled by the horror of the spectacle.

While we still get to enjoy a bit of good old fashioned hand to hand combat through boxing and martial arts, recently, the MMA and UFC have brought violence for entertainment to a brutally unmitigated level.

At the average MMA fight it's not uncommon to see people smashed in the face and head with knees, elbows etc. Noses and jaws are broken, blood splatters the canvas and God knows what internal injuries are sustained.

The surprise about all of this? It's a massive, legal, commercialised, highly profitable and growing "sport".

Bad enough as it is, it appears that some of the participants are not satisfied with the loosely regulated MMA which requires fighters to wear gloves and that matches must be refereed, and they've decided to participate in organised "street fights".

The video below is taken from youtube, it's freely available without age restriction and it's had hundreds of thousands of hits.


[video=youtube;kL7p4839l24]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL7p4839l24[/video]


What I'm wondering is,

1. Where does this brutally violent "sport" end? Will they introduce weapons next?
2. Is it healthy to view this stuff as entertainment?
The UFC likes to market itself as no holds barred but in reality it is very tightly controlled as regards rules. there are a good number of dangerous techniques that are banned along with strict rules regarding kicks to the head etc.(who would go into any ring if they thought there was a high chance of death or serious injury).
the fact is that there are less serious head injuries in MMA than in boxing. and while there might be a lot of blood on show the many injuries sustained in a hurling match would be worse - the main injuries are bruising and broken noses- bad looking but not so serious. I have only seen arm breaks once or twice and to be honest it was down to a fighter not releasing the hold on the tap out which is imo nasty and should bring sanction.
I watch MMA mainly for the technical aspect but some of the crowds that attend the events imo seem pretty clueless. they boo and hiss a guy who doesn't get hit instead of appreciating his skill at not being hit etc. so you have a valid point re bloodlust. the other underground stuff it seems is strictly for nutjobs who have little regard for their own safety or that of others. there will always be the few.
 

Septic Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
428
MMA is highly controlled and strictly refereed. So this OP is total BS. Written by someone who probably knows f*ck all about martial arts disciplines.
What's to know tough guy? I've seen the videos, I've seen the blood, I've seen the people knocked out.

You seem like a real tough nut though. I bet you're out street fighting every night. Wouldn't like to bump into you in a dark alley:lol:

The MMA is less about beating the opponent with fists and kicks but more to do with grappling and pinning him in a hold. Fighters are no more injured than boxers are.
Please stop. It's clear you don't know anything about MMA.



 
Last edited:

Mr. Bumble

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Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
18,254
I fought in martial arts (not mma). The fights were strictly refereed but you could still get badly hurt. IMO rugby is far more dangerous than most martial arts fights and, IIRC (I read it somewhere), Rugby, GAA and soccer had more serious injuries per hours played than martial arts.

Don't forget that mma is professional as is pro boxing. Some people just like to fight and know the risks and some people just like to watch those fights.
 

Hitch 22

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Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
I fought in martial arts (not mma). The fights were strictly refereed but you could still get badly hurt. IMO rugby is far more dangerous than most martial arts fights and, IIRC (I read it somewhere), Rugby, GAA and soccer had more serious injuries per hours played than martial arts.

Don't forget that mma is professional as is pro boxing. Some people just like to fight and know the risks and some people just like to watch those fights.
People who are ignorant sensationalize what they don't understand.
 
D

Dylan2010

I fought in martial arts (not mma). The fights were strictly refereed but you could still get badly hurt. IMO rugby is far more dangerous than most martial arts fights and, IIRC (I read it somewhere), Rugby, GAA and soccer had more serious injuries per hours played than martial arts.

Don't forget that mma is professional as is pro boxing. Some people just like to fight and know the risks and some people just like to watch those fights.
I'd agree , also team sports seem to bring the worst out in people. the recent case of a chinese kid being racially abused in the wexford GAA comes to mind and the soccer stuff is rarely out of the news. Martial arts tends to reinforce respecting your opponent.
 

iartaoiseach

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Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,232
What's to know tough guy? I've seen the videos, I've seen the blood, I've seen the people knocked out.

You seem like a real tough nut though. I bet you're out street fighting every night. Wouldn't like to bump into you in a dark alley:lol:
he might not put it in the most diplomatic way but in fairness to Hitch he is correct in what he says about MMA/TMA. Unfortunately hype is necessary it seems in order to promote anything especially in the US. hence the trash talk posturing etc. most martial artists are taught to respect the opponent. and in reality the opponent is yourself. the other person is a mirror of yourself. you destroy them you are no better than the violent thug who attacks for the fun. 'street fighting' is not related to most martial arts. there are no rules or weight classes in the 'street'. check out the OODA loop for a real discussion on real self defence if you are interested. it is about being alert to potential danger and it is more valuable than any amount of bone crunching techniques.
 

Mr. Bumble

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Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
18,254
I'd agree , also team sports seem to bring the worst out in people. the recent case of a chinese kid being racially abused in the wexford GAA comes to mind and the soccer stuff is rarely out of the news. Martial arts tends to reinforce respecting your opponent.
Yes, martial arts do emphasise respect for the fight and the opponent. It doesn't stop you trying to win, it just means that you're not there for the fight, you're there for the sport. Even though you have to be aggressive and try to hurt or dominate your opponent.
 

Troy_337

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Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
614
The human animal is hard wired for aggression, the challenge is to resist it whenever possible.
 

Hitch 22

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Dec 26, 2011
Messages
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What's to know tough guy? I've seen the videos, I've seen the blood, I've seen the people knocked out.

You seem like a real tough nut though. I bet you're out street fighting every night. Wouldn't like to bump into you in a dark alley:lol:



Please stop. It's clear you don't know anything about MMA.



It's very rare that a fighter comes away that bloodied. Just as it is rare that boxer comes away bloodied either.

In a street fight there are no rules at all and a MMA fighter could easily come away in worse shape than an untrained opponent.
 

Septic Frank

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Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
428
People who are ignorant sensationalize what they don't understand.
I'm not ignorant (I've seen and posted the videos) and I'm not sensationalizing anything (the videos speak for themselves).



I show you an image like this and you tell me they don't always get that bloodied? Maybe not always, but often they do.

Do you deem this to be good entertainment and of no harm to impressionable kids (or impressionable adults like yourself)?
 

Septic Frank

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Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
428
The human animal is hard wired for aggression, the challenge is to resist it whenever possible.
And there are times when we need agression.

However, is the marketing, packaging and sale of extreme violence a healthy thing?
 

EoinMag

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Aug 4, 2010
Messages
4,950
And there are times when we need agression.

However, is the marketing, packaging and sale of extreme violence a healthy thing?
Yep, it is healthy, it's obvious that watching it stops some people having to practise it.
 
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