Do we need a Minister for Death and Dying to deal with the worsening crisis of long lives without independence?

Congalltee

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Do we need a Minister for Death and Dying to deal with the worsening crisis of long lives without independence?

As Mary Hanifan said "unfortunately people are living longer".
It will happen to us all, and to 30,000 of us every year (100 years ago the stats day 50,000 per year).

Most deaths will be slow, painful process happening years after we lose our independence.

2,500 dying people will be denied access to specialist palliative care.

Only 26% will die at home with proper support. Most of us will die in a hospital, blocking beds from people who can thrive rather than merely survive.

The political challenges of death:
1) there's no votes in it, since people don't want to hear about it.
2) short term thinking retaining the hospital led model.
3) litigation undermining independent living arrangements.
4) ageing population with fewer children to look after us in our old age.
5) those with poor pensions being unable to pay medical insurance.
6) a current ban on euthanasia.
7) a gap of ten years between healthy life expectancy and death.
8) fewer graves available.
9) people not putting elderly dying parents in a state institution because a) they think they can cope b) they see investigations of abuse c) they don't want to forfeit 15% of their inheritance.
10) the voluntary, charity and religious pick up the slack; so the State does not bother.

Press Release Births, Deaths and Marriages in 2015 - CSO - Central Statistics Office

"Almost 4 in 5 deaths were from either diseases of the circulatory system (9,249 or 30.9%), malignant neoplasm (8,783 or 29.3%), or diseases of the respiratory system (3,793 or 12.7%). Deaths due to accidents, suicide and other external causes accounted for a further 1,439 or 4.8% of all deaths in 2015."

http://hospicefoundation.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Access-to-specialist-palliative-care-services-place-of-death-in-Ireland.pdf

Great statistics here
HEALTH PROFILE IRELAND

Ireland's top 10 killer illnesses
Rank Condition Number of deaths % of all deaths
1 Coronary heart disease 2427 8%
2 Heart attack 2260 8%
3 Lung cancer 1801 6%
4 COPD 1416 5%
5 Pneumonia 1075 4%
6 Stroke 1009 3%
7 Dementia 716 2%
8 Breast cancer 698 2%
9 Alzheimer's disease 561 2%
10 Colon cancer 543 2%
 
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ibis

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Can't see that being a popular job...at least not with that title.
 

gatsbygirl20

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As a society we probably need to talk more about death, dying, dementia, pensions, our ageing population, care of the elderly, fear of dying, denial, cremation, funerals, incontinence,....

We need to look at death in a clear-eyed way and stop kidding ourselves. Philip Larkin's poem "Aubade" is probably a good place to start

But death is an offence, an outrage, a design flaw in our well put together world where we invest so much in the idea of living forever--gyms, running, boot camp, Pilates, tooth whitening, .....

We are in denial, and cannot look into the abyss. We have a whole suite of glib, superficial little clichés: "when you're dead, you're dead. no use worrying about it" "Coffin-dodgers..". 'Bed-blockers" .....and on the other hand the euphemisms to hide the reality "senior citizens" "senior care" "irritable bladder" "Passed" for "died" etc

Old age is not for sissies, as some Hollywood actress said.....

Dying is not like it looks in the movies either.

And we're all heading there. And more and more of us are making it to our nineties...
 

Irish-Rationalist

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With increased life expectancy people are living longer and consequently putting increased pressure on public services. It's the same in the UK and indeed the world. Perhaps mandatory euthanasia when the mind and body no longer function proficiently is the way forward? As a life-long misanthrope who detests people regardless of class, race, religion, nationality, gender or political affiliation, I'd be more than happy to support such an endeavour.
 

Dorcha

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With increased life expectancy people are living longer and consequently putting increased pressure on public services. It's the same in the UK and indeed the world. Perhaps mandatory euthanasia when the mind and body no longer function proficiently is the way forward? As a life-long misanthrope who detests people regardless of class, race, religion, nationality, gender or political affiliation, I'd be more than happy to support such an endeavour.
Perhaps a misanthrope is not the person to debate a people-related problem rationally?
 

drummed

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With increased life expectancy people are living longer and consequently putting increased pressure on public services. It's the same in the UK and indeed the world. Perhaps mandatory euthanasia when the mind and body no longer function proficiently is the way forward? As a life-long misanthrope who detests people regardless of class, race, religion, nationality, gender or political affiliation, I'd be more than happy to support such an endeavour.
As it happens, there would be many posters on here who display all of the symptoms as outlined and who happily would also support the idea of excluding such types from society. That is, in this case themselves.

I think in particular of Taidhg, the classic 'pro-life' advocate, who would jump at this suggestion if you promote the racial and religious nature of it further.
 

ergo2

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Best to stay friendly with your children and grandchildren,
eat less, move more.
Keep the brain active.
Work and study
 

gatsbygirl20

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Best to stay friendly with your children and grandchildren,
eat less, move more.
Keep the brain active.
Work and study
Great advice, Ergo.

But that will postpone, but not eliminate the problem

It just pushes back the Elder Years.

Barring a merciful fast fatal heart attack ( and the medical profession has worked manfully to ensure that they are becoming rarer) at some point the slow decline sets in.....confusion, dementia, lack of mobility, lack of independence, deafness, risk of falling, reduced urinary continence, withdrawal......( not all, but some of these)

That is if full-blown Alzheimer's does not kick in...or cancer, more frequent in the elderly.....or broken hip or pelvis because of a fall

We have to face this.

And more and more of us are facing it without the consolation of religion or the belief in an Afterlife.
 

ergo2

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Great advice, Ergo.

But that will postpone, but not eliminate the problem

It just pushes back the Elder Years.

Barring a merciful fast fatal heart attack ( and the medical profession has worked manfully to ensure that they are becoming rarer) at some point the slow decline sets in.....confusion, dementia, lack of mobility, lack of independence, deafness, risk of falling, reduced urinary continence, withdrawal......( not all, but some of these)

That is if full-blown Alzheimer's does not kick in...or cancer, more frequent in the elderly.....or broken hip or pelvis because of a fall

We have to face this.

And more and more of us are facing it without the consolation of religion or the belief in an Afterlife.
All these things may happen GG20, but I hope not just yet

Meanwhile wondering by how much Mayo will beat Dublin - and if perchance not this year, I can wait.

And if, as we are entitled to, we win three in a row - then we will really believe there is a God
 

wombat

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Its bad enough that the state wants to control how we live.
 

gatsbygirl20

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All these things may happen GG20, but I hope not just yet

Meanwhile wondering by how much Mayo will beat Dublin - and if perchance not this year, I can wait.

And if, as we are entitled to, we win three in a row - then we will really believe there is a God
Don't die Ergo before Mayo bring that cup West...And don't get dementia either if you can help it, because you need to be able to remember and savour the moment of victory for years to come....

As for belief in a Supreme Being....There are no Atheists in foxholes....Every Mayo supporter will be praying next Saturday.....
 

Congalltee

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It's an issue that gets very little attention, despite the fact that it's universal.

Senators Mullen, Quinn and Shane Ross tabled a motion in 2010

Calls on Government to:

. Develop measures to allow people die in their homes rather than in hospital, where this is their choice
. Allocate resources so that more people can access comprehensive hospice services in their community
. Ensure that national guidelines are operational in all acute and community hospitals to address all key end-of-life care issues
. Develop systems to enable effective gathering of data on deaths in hospitals
. Ensure ongoing auditing of end-of-life care and the introduction of a system for review of deaths in hospitals in which bereaved families can participate
. Ensure training for healthcare and support staff in end-of-life care skills, bereavement support and advance care planning
. Establish a grants fund to support projects which will enhance the environment of hospitals and other locations where people face the end of life
. Develop and resource a comprehensive End-of-Life Care Strategy for Ireland which will incorporate and update the work of the National Advisory Committee on Palliative Care (2001) and the NOSP Petrus Review of Bereavement Support (2007)
 

Skypeme

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.........I think in particular of Taidhg, the classic 'pro-life' advocate, who would jump at this suggestion if you promote the racial and religious nature of it further.
I doubt that the supporters of euthanasia or what ever term you wish to use, need any encouragement to agree that "As a society we probably need to talk more about death". Plenty of 'Repeal the 8th' enthusiasts ready to discuss another form of instutionalised murder.

But I digress, who should we emulate? Lots of examples out there to encourage us. In Verhofstadterland, for example, the law is wide enough to accommodate a wide range of conditions:
"The Belgian law is similar. The patient's suffering must be constant and unbearable, resulting from a serious and incurable disorder. There is no requirement that the patient be diagnosed with a terminal illness, although additional checks are imposed if the patient is not terminally ill."

Maybe we should call an assembly of citizens to discuss a constitutional amendment on how to "Get rid Granny and Granda", pack it with liberals and push the housing crisis (they are all living in big houses..), or the health crisis (the old people are clogging up the hospitals), or new employment and marketing opportunities offering the old and infirm "Suicide Packages for the Road to Heaven".

It's not that far fetched as it may seem. In a week during which an 80-yearold died on an HSE trolly, some on this site are asking why the person was in the hospital in the first place.

Begs the question of exactly who is 'off their trolly'!
 

The Field Marshal

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What a miserable OP.

Mods.
Please reword the title to should we have mods who kill of miserable OPs that fester on the culture of death.
Enough.
I'm outta here.
 

GDPR

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The Irish are a dying race - more deaths than births. The Oligarch rulers of Ireland have decided to protect their profits by importing millions of immigrants. A reorganisation of society to transfer wealth to the Irish youth so that they can get married young and have children would be detrimental to Oligarch privilege.
 

GDPR

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As it happens, there would be many posters on here who display all of the symptoms as outlined and who happily would also support the idea of excluding such types from society. That is, in this case themselves.

I think in particular of Taidhg, the classic 'pro-life' advocate, who would jump at this suggestion if you promote the racial and religious nature of it further.
Yes, I am Pro-Life and totally against euthanasia (except for the rentier classes). My solution to this problem is to help the youth get married young and have lots of healthy Irish children.
 

drummed

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Yes, I am Pro-Life and totally against euthanasia (except for the rentier classes). My solution to this problem is to help the youth get married young and have lots of healthy Irish children.
How do you plan to achieve the above?
 

GDPR

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How do you plan to achieve the above?
First step - confiscate drummed's farm and give it to a young couple on the understanding that they will have at least five Gaelic children and bring them up speaking Irish.
 


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