Does Fine Gael regret supporting the FF Bank Guarantee?

He3

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Does Fine Gael regret supporting the FF Bank Guarantee in 2008?

If they do, what lessons have they learned?
 


sic transit

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Given the alleged panic at the time and the fact it was not the guarantee but the extent of its coverage we NOW know was the problem, what should they regret? They agreed with it in principle but as it has become apparent since then no-one knew the full extent of the canker, they were not wrong.

Personally I actually don't care and I am really tired of this collective myopic obsession with the past and our continued inability to look towards how we want our future to shape up.
 

culmore

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They must regret it now as it was a bad decision, however they are around long enough to to believe anything that comes from FF. They have only one agenda ie. themselves first. Hope they never again agree with FF on anything even the time of day without checking it out properly first
 

Expatriot

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FF regret it for Christ sake never mind FG and the Greens.
 

SideysGhost

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Given the alleged panic at the time and the fact it was not the guarantee but the extent of its coverage we NOW know was the problem, what should they regret? They agreed with it in principle but as it has become apparent since then no-one knew the full extent of the canker, they were not wrong.
This is completely untrue, there were a range of voices screaming from the rooftops that the cost of the Guarantee would be a minimum of €40bn and possibly much higher. Peter Matthews for example. And screaming that the Guarantee was a massive spoof, a bluff, a conjob and potentially could lead to sovereign default.

FG went ahead and supported it anyway, and no amount of FF-style auld "ah we are were we are shure nobody could have known" toxic shyte can ever excuse that.

Now people can make mistakes and if FG were adult and fessed up that they'd been conned by Lendahand I might forgive them. But this responsibility-dodging infantile nonsense of claiming they had no other option and no alternative advice available is pathetic.

Personally I actually don't care and I am really tired of this collective myopic obsession with the past and our continued inability to look towards how we want our future to shape up.
Four years since the housing bubble burst, and this "collective myopic obsession" of yours is still up its own hole and utterly failing to correctly diagnose what happened 1998-2006. If people refuse to actually admit the truth and what actually led us here in the first place; and the failings of our institutions, politics, economy, culture and society are never identified and addressed; then seriously how the f*** do you actually expect Ireland to shape a better future?

This "Ah lads shure what's done is done let's all move on" is yet more toxic shyte as it leaves all the failings of the past still in place, with just a collective agreement to pretend none of us can see them. And it'll explode in our faces, all this wilful denial and determined active elephant-ignoring. For decades we tried the same approach with the North, or paedo priests, or butcher doctors or sadist teachers and now we're going to do the same - again!! - with outright criminality in the political and financial world?

Ireland really needs to grow the f*** up, and very f***ing fast, cos all this head in the sand wilful denial will very shortly now result in your bastard partitioned nasty crass vicious excuse of a Statelet coming to an ignoble and disgraceful end.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Does Fine Gael regret supporting the FF Bank Guarantee in 2008?
When the renewal came up recently, Noonan had a bit of a wobble on it. He tried to distance FG from the original guarantee on the basis that they didn't know what they were voting for while holding out the possibility that they would vote for the renewal.

If they do, what lessons have they learned?
FG don't do learning.
 

Expatriot

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This is completely untrue, there were a range of voices screaming from the rooftops that the cost of the Guarantee would be a minimum of €40bn and possibly much higher. Peter Matthews for example. And screaming that the Guarantee was a massive spoof, a bluff, a conjob and potentially could lead to sovereign default.

FG went ahead and supported it anyway, and no amount of FF-style auld "ah we are were we are shure nobody could have known" toxic shyte can ever excuse that.

Now people can make mistakes and if FG were adult and fessed up that they'd been conned by Lendahand I might forgive them. But this responsibility-dodging infantile nonsense of claiming they had no other option and no alternative advice available is pathetic.



Four years since the housing bubble burst, and this "collective myopic obsession" of yours is still up its own hole and utterly failing to correctly diagnose what happened 1998-2006. If people refuse to actually admit the truth and what actually led us here in the first place; and the failings of our institutions, politics, economy, culture and society are never identified and addressed; then seriously how the f*** do you actually expect Ireland to shape a better future?

This "Ah lads shure what's done is done let's all move on" is yet more toxic shyte as it leaves all the failings of the past still in place, with just a collective agreement to pretend none of us can see them. And it'll explode in our faces, all this wilful denial and determined active elephant-ignoring. For decades we tried the same approach with the North, or paedo priests, or butcher doctors or sadist teachers and now we're going to do the same - again!! - with outright criminality in the political and financial world?

Ireland really needs to grow the f*** up, and very f***ing fast, cos all this head in the sand wilful denial will very shortly now result in your bastard partitioned nasty crass vicious excuse of a Statelet coming to an ignoble and disgraceful end.
I agree 100%. I clearly remember eating my breakfast that morning listening to what they had done on radio 1, I was furious in a way I have never been before or since. I have no economic or financial training but I knew I had been robbed blind. It was a disgraceful decision at the time in the context of the time. It has only got worse since. FG were very wrong to support it.
 

PrinceMax

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I'd say so, as in my opinion it's hurt them politically. A lot of people will surely no longer vote for FG, as their voting for this guarantee indicates FG are open to coalition with FF.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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I agree 100%. I clearly remember eating my breakfast that morning listening to what they had done on radio 1, I was furious in a way I have never been before or since. I have no economic or financial training but I knew I had been robbed blind. It was a disgraceful decision at the time in the context of the time. It has only got worse since. FG were very wrong to support it.
Ditto - it seemed like the dumbest and laziest approach to solving - actually trying to hide - a problem that their dumb and lazy policies had created in the first place and it was obvious from the start that we couldn't actually cover the exposure in anything approaching the "worst case scenario".

If FG have learned anything - as if they should have needed to - I hope it is that FF can not be trusted, under any circumstances, do do what's right for the country and will lie and cheat to achieve their objectives.
 

Malbekh

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FG: We were misled into backing bank guarantee | Irish Examiner

The main opposition party last night voted against an extension of the guarantee, despite accepting it was necessary for Bank of Ireland and AIB.

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said it was a "source of bewilderment" that the guarantee which was supported by Fine Gael in the Dáil two years ago "is now being characterised the root of all our problems".

But the main opposition finance spokesman, Michael Noonan, said Fine Gael had been "misled" on the guarantee back in September 2008 and it was "hard to believe" that the minister did not know at that time Anglo Irish Bank was insolvent.

Mr Noonan said an extension of the guarantee was "necessary" to ensure the refinancing of AIB and Bank of Ireland.

But he said his party could not support it unless Anglo immediately started negotiations with subordinated bond holders to "alleviate the cost of an orderly wind down".
 

justme1

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This is completely untrue, there were a range of voices screaming from the rooftops that the cost of the Guarantee would be a minimum of €40bn and possibly much higher. Peter Matthews for example. And screaming that the Guarantee was a massive spoof, a bluff, a conjob and potentially could lead to sovereign default.

FG went ahead and supported it anyway, and no amount of FF-style auld "ah we are were we are shure nobody could have known" toxic shyte can ever excuse that.

Now people can make mistakes and if FG were adult and fessed up that they'd been conned by Lendahand I might forgive them. But this responsibility-dodging infantile nonsense of claiming they had no other option and no alternative advice available is pathetic.



Four years since the housing bubble burst, and this "collective myopic obsession" of yours is still up its own hole and utterly failing to correctly diagnose what happened 1998-2006. If people refuse to actually admit the truth and what actually led us here in the first place; and the failings of our institutions, politics, economy, culture and society are never identified and addressed; then seriously how the f*** do you actually expect Ireland to shape a better future?

This "Ah lads shure what's done is done let's all move on" is yet more toxic shyte as it leaves all the failings of the past still in place, with just a collective agreement to pretend none of us can see them. And it'll explode in our faces, all this wilful denial and determined active elephant-ignoring. For decades we tried the same approach with the North, or paedo priests, or butcher doctors or sadist teachers and now we're going to do the same - again!! - with outright criminality in the political and financial world?

Ireland really needs to grow the f*** up, and very f***ing fast, cos all this head in the sand wilful denial will very shortly now result in your bastard partitioned nasty crass vicious excuse of a Statelet coming to an ignoble and disgraceful end.
Spot on SideysGhost!
 

sic transit

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Four years since the housing bubble burst, and this "collective myopic obsession" of yours is still up its own hole and utterly failing to correctly diagnose what happened 1998-2006. If people refuse to actually admit the truth and what actually led us here in the first place; and the failings of our institutions, politics, economy, culture and society are never identified and addressed; then seriously how the f*** do you actually expect Ireland to shape a better future?

This "Ah lads shure what's done is done let's all move on" is yet more toxic shyte as it leaves all the failings of the past still in place, with just a collective agreement to pretend none of us can see them. And it'll explode in our faces, all this wilful denial and determined active elephant-ignoring. For decades we tried the same approach with the North, or paedo priests, or butcher doctors or sadist teachers and now we're going to do the same - again!! - with outright criminality in the political and financial world?

Ireland really needs to grow the f*** up, and very f***ing fast, cos all this head in the sand wilful denial will very shortly now result in your bastard partitioned nasty crass vicious excuse of a Statelet coming to an ignoble and disgraceful end.
I am not sure if you agree or disagree with me but I suspect you disagree. This is exactly what I am talking about. Lots of memories and histrionics but not a whit about how to address anything aside from extreme violence on all and sundry. I personally see no value in this kind of semi-permanent rage. I understand that some people feel comfortable embracing it and that it is their choice.

If you identify someone as having committed a crime you punish them as much as the law allows you. Once that has been done the case is over and you do move on. If someone does you a wrong you try and resolve it and try to move on your life.

As for head in the sand well I certainly have grown weary of the shock-shock rants and angry people. I am in no state of denial. Do I see where we've landed ourselves? Absolutely, but no amount of scapegoating any random segment of society will undo that. This is not a bad dream we'll wake up from to find ourselves in happier times.

I, like others, am far more interested in where we go from here, rather than continually raking over the coals of the appalling mess we've got into.
 
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He3

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SideysGhost

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I am not sure if you agree or disagree with me but I suspect you disagree. This is exactly what I am talking about. Lots of memories and histrionics but not a whit about how to address anything aside from extreme violence on all and sundry. I personally see no value in this kind of semi-permanent rage. I understand that some people feel comfortable embracing it and that it is their choice.

If you identify someone as having committed a crime you punish them as much as the law allows you. Once that has been done the case is over and you do move on. If someone does you a wrong you try and resolve it and try to move on your life.

As for head in the sand well I certainly have grown weary of the shock-shock rants and angry people. I am in no state of denial. Do I see where we've landed ourselves? Absolutely, but no amount of scapegoating any random segment of society will undo that. This is not a bad dream we'll wake up from to find ourselves in happier times.

I, like others, am far more interested in where we go from here, rather than continually raking over the coals of the appalling mess we've got into.
Does that drivel actually mean anything beyond "ah begorrah shure we are where we are going forward"?

There is no understanding of the realities and facts and consequences of a huge asset bubble, no understanding of the realities and facts of the results of decades of corrupt pork spending and pandering to vested interests and sheltering protected rigged markets, no analysis of the systemic failures of our entire civil service, regulatory and political environment to call a spade a spade and adress the issues in a timely and honest manner - instead we had about 8 years of a manic bubble where the entire civil servide, media and political class climbed enthusiastically on board and four years later seem apparently hell-bent on bankrupting the country to bring back the bubble and what they think is "normal".

And yer just as bad. Cloud feckin cuckoo land, the lot of ye. Ye won't face up to what went on in Ireland, ye won't learn the lessons, ye don't do introspection and self-awareness, ye just want to sweep it all under the carpet, shrug the shoulders and say "ah shure what's done is done" and charge full tilt ahead into the next half-baked hare-brained cack-handed idiotic snakeoil scam.

When I see sane articles correctly identifying the systemic and cultural failures that created this mess in the mainstream media, when I see a bit of self-awareness amongst the population at large, and when I see the correct culprits correctly identified and adequately punished, then we can "move on, going forward".
 

Gemlarkin

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If Fine Gael regreted the Guarantee they would not have supported it extension

If Fine Gael regreted the Guarantee they would not have supported it extension.

The Sub bonds dont really add up to a significant sum in the context of the scale of the Bank losses:

(1) declared or admitted

(2) bank losses not yet declared or submitted

(3) bank losses that have not yet occured
 

Panopticon

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The bank guarantee wasn't the problem. The Anglo nationalisation was the problem.
 


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